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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 137867 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1140 on: November 06, 2019, 08:32:25 am »

Says the guy who gets upset when his mom is mentioned.

Because it is personal.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1141 on: November 06, 2019, 08:32:46 am »

Apparently it's only proper for Democrats to investigate Republicans for violating US laws.  Republicans are not allowed to investigate Democrats for breaking similar US laws.  The Republicans don't know how to fight dirty like the Democrats.  What a bunch of sad sacks.
Benghazi????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1142 on: November 06, 2019, 08:35:15 am »

.. This means that a deal was being made and this deal is called a Quid Pro Quo...

What deal? The aid was delivered and no investigation of the Bidens happened.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1143 on: November 06, 2019, 08:39:19 am »

There is no truth to what you have written other than maybe FOX news or some Internet source.  Hunter Biden was also appointed to the Amtrak Board of Directors by President GW Bush so maybe he is also complicit here.  The fact is that relatives of politicians always are picked for a variety of jobs that they might not otherwise be qualified for.  I used to own Wells Fargo stock and Elaine Chao, Mrs. Mitch MicConnell, was on the Board for a number of years.  She had absolutely no background in the banking industry, something one might think would be necessary for an outside director.  Needless to say I always voted against her each proxy season.  Maybe we should be investigating this as well.

If you cannot document statements, don't bother posting them.
You accuse the president of violating emolument clauses because foreign leaders check in to his hotels and pay for rooms there.  Like he should sell his property because he's president and fire his children as well because they make money off of his hotels while he's president.   You want to impeach him just for these things.  Major news stories for three years still going on.  Yet, when Democrats do similar stuff, well nothing to see.  Just move on.  It doesn't matter that Biden used his position to get his son a job in a corrupt corporation in Ukraine.  What's good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1144 on: November 06, 2019, 08:42:56 am »

Benghazi????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Well, every republican should be saying that Joe Biden used his Vice Presidential position to get his son a job in the Ukraine and should be investigated.  Where are they?  Maybe they are saying it.  It's just that the anti trump media is not reporting their statements. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1145 on: November 06, 2019, 08:44:57 am »

What deal? The aid was delivered and no investigation of the Bidens happened.
But they should have been investigated.  They're crooks.  Trump should have followed through. 

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1146 on: November 06, 2019, 08:47:17 am »

You accuse the president of violating emolument clauses because foreign leaders check in to his hotels and pay for rooms there.  Like he should sell his property because he's president and fire his children as well because they make money off of his hotels while he's president.   You want to impeach him just for these things.  Major news stories for three years still going on.  Yet, when Democrats do similar stuff, well nothing to see.  Just move on.  It doesn't matter that Biden used his position to get his son a job in a corrupt corporation in Ukraine.  What's good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander.
I didn't accuse the President of violating the emolument clause at all.  There are some ongoing court cases about that but I'm personally not involved.  I don't have the power to imipeach the President on anything.  In fact, I'm pretty much in agreement with Conservative WaPo columnist Marc Thiessen that a better approach is to censure President Trump:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/05/why-dont-democrats-drop-impeachment-just-censure-trump/ .  this will be a very awkward moment for Republicans in both the House and Senate as they would be forced to take a vote that the President clearly was engaged in wrong doing.

Please stop saying things that are patently untrue. 
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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1147 on: November 06, 2019, 08:56:18 am »

But they should have been investigated.  They're crooks.  Trump should have followed through.

This is banana-talk.

I thought you were so proud of the US constitution...
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1148 on: November 06, 2019, 08:56:44 am »

I didn't accuse the President of violating the emolument clause at all. There are some ongoing court cases about that but I'm personally not involved.  I don't have the power to imipeach the President on anything. In fact, I'm pretty much in agreement with Conservative WaPo columnist Marc Thiessen that a better approach is to censure President Trump:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/05/why-dont-democrats-drop-impeachment-just-censure-trump/ .  this will be a very awkward moment for Republicans in both the House and Senate as they would be forced to take a vote that the President clearly was engaged in wrong doing.

Please stop saying things that are patently untrue. 

I know.  Your hands are clean.  So how about asking your Democrat friends why they are complaining about Trump and emoluments and his kids?  I don't buy your sudden fake innocence.  You've supported these Democrat charges all along.   To argue now that you're "not personally involved" or you "can't personally impeach the president" is just a weird argument.    Is that the best you can do? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1149 on: November 06, 2019, 09:00:07 am »

This is banana-talk.

I thought you were so proud of the US constitution...

Apparently Democrats are doing "banana" talk.  They've been calling for Trump's impeachment for helping his kids get rich due to his position as president.  Maybe you've forgotten.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1150 on: November 06, 2019, 09:04:29 am »

It's all over internet, this is just the first link I found: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-gas-tycoon-and-the-vice-presidents-son-the-story-of-hunter-bidens-foray-in-ukraine/2019/09/28/1aadff70-dfd9-11e9-8fd3-d943b4ed57e0_story.html...

I asked you to support with a citation your claim that the World Bank and EU wanted one specific person fired. Instead, you sent me to read a lengthy news item. Fine, I read it. The only thing I could find there is the exact repetition of your claim (or were you repeating their claim?), without providing any proof. And who stated such a claim in the article? Not the WaPo reporter, but, wait... the Biden campaign itself!? Wow!

Quote
“Joe Biden proudly fought for reform in Ukraine and his achievement of a goal the U.S., EU, IMF, and entire Ukrainian anti-corruption community all strongly supported was a profound victory for good government there,” Andrew Bates, a spokesman for the Biden campaign, said in a statement. 

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1151 on: November 06, 2019, 09:10:03 am »

Joe,

Aid was being withheld at the time, this is the issue. But I am sure you understand that very well. A crime doesn't have to succeed to be a crime.

Trying to kill someone is a crime even if you don't succeed.

Cheers,
Bernard

Aid was delayed, at most, and the investigation was not started.  Have fun trying to convict and get Warren elected. 

FYI, your example is a false equivalence and a red herring.  There are attempted murder statutes in every state, which you can point to.  But here? 

So once again, please point to the statute he violated. 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 09:16:05 am by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1152 on: November 06, 2019, 09:17:16 am »

Unfortunately, what goes around will come around.  Maybe this is just Democrats getting even for what happened to Clinton and his impeachment.  But there's going to be a time when republicans run the House again with a Democrat president.  Then we're going to go through the same thing again, and we shouldn't.  It's bad for the country to make political fights into impeachment wars. 

ah693973

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1153 on: November 06, 2019, 09:17:57 am »

What makes me a hypocrite?

I don't know, maybe your upbringing. Or your life experiences. Or it could be Fox news. The other interesting bit to explore would be genetics, I think that may play a part. We could explore this if you like.

Are you saying that a legal immigrant can not be against illegal immigration, open borders, and fake refugees?

This would be a much better argument if your chart was entitled "Fake Refugees".
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1154 on: November 06, 2019, 09:20:42 am »

Please point to the specific statute. 

I have yet to see any specific law noted that he violated...

+1

They keep squealing about “violating the constitution,” without actually stating which part. Even a collusion with a foreign power is not a crime, although it might be politically unpleasant. And they couldn’t even prove that.

ah693973

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1155 on: November 06, 2019, 09:21:42 am »

No, they asked for a public announcement of an investigation. It is much less clear if they actually wanted it to occur.

Similarly the Republican Trump administration asked for investigation of Democrat ex-VP Biden and his son on the possibility they violated US law.  This was being done before an election to the opposite party, a major political event.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1156 on: November 06, 2019, 09:22:45 am »

I don't know, maybe your upbringing. Or your life experiences. Or it could be Fox news. The other interesting bit to explore would be genetics, I think that may play a part. We could explore this if you like.

This would be a much better argument if your chart was entitled "Fake Refugees".
Wow.  It didn't take you long to get nasty and resort to personal attacks.  What's with you?

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1157 on: November 06, 2019, 09:28:33 am »

No, they asked for a public announcement of an investigation. It is much less clear if they actually wanted it to occur.

I shocked, simply shocked to hear that a politician may have been playing politics.  Even if it was 100% political, we don't impeach presidents for doing political things.   

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1158 on: November 06, 2019, 09:29:16 am »

I don't know, maybe your upbringing. Or your life experiences. Or it could be Fox news. The other interesting bit to explore would be genetics, I think that may play a part. We could explore this if you like...

Once again, you are making this personal. My question (“what makes me a hypocrite”) has only one meaning in a civilized discussion, i.e., what = which part of what I said would make that statement hypocritical. Instead, you decided to turn it into a smarty-pants joke about my mother, upbringing, or genetics.

You are new to the forum. It would behoove you to understand its rules: no personal attacks.

Chris Kern

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1159 on: November 06, 2019, 09:32:59 am »

Please point to the specific statute. 

I have yet to see any specific law noted that he violated . . .

The one most-frequently cited with respect to the transcript of the phone call between Trump and the Ukrainian president that was released by the White House is 52 USC §30121: "It shall be unlawful for . . . a person to solicit, accept, or receive [a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value] from a foreign national."

However, no statutory violation is constitutionally required to support impeachment and removal from office.

Quote
The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.
— Article II, §4

Obviously, at the time the constitution was drafted, there were no federal statutes.  Treason was explictly and very narrowly defined in the constitution itself.  The term bribery, as used in the impeachment clause, was the common law crime of bribery, although Congress subsequently has enacted explicit federal bribery statutes, e.g., 18 USC §201.

High crimes and misdemeanors is also a common law term, one of the oldest (used in impeachments since the 14th Century), and might best be summarized as "abuse of power."  It refers to a corrupt act that is inconsistent with an office-holder's responsibilities.  It may or may not involve violation of a statute and every violation of a statute is not necessarily a high crime or misdemeanor.  It's all but certain that the meaning of "high crimes and misdemeanors" will be a subject of debate in the House of Representatives over whether to impeach Trump and, should it do so, in the Senate over whether to remove him from office.
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