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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 137264 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #740 on: October 28, 2019, 01:56:04 pm »

This must be an awfully important photo forum if you think that a few contributors can affect a US election.

It's mainly Dutch and Canadians meddling in US elections.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #741 on: October 28, 2019, 02:44:32 pm »

Stop meddling.
😀

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #742 on: October 28, 2019, 02:46:57 pm »

It's mainly Dutch and Canadians meddling in US elections.

Oh no, maybe the US will push up the tariffs on tulip bulbs and maple syrup if we don't stop!

Personally speaking, I couldn't care less if they impeach him or not. It risks making him a martyr, as improbable as that sounds. It's not as if they need to keep the pressure on to induce bizarre behaviour on Trump's part, he's more than happy to oblige all on his own. I see that today he's attacking officials in Chicago for some reason or other. It's a sure sign that politics is screwed up these days because at first blush it should be easy to find someone reasonable to win against him, but the internecine fight among the Democrats seems to be as poisoned as anything else. Why should that be?

It's ironic to listen to these "debates" as if dire consequences will emerge if one side or another is picked. We have all the food and shelter we need, there is always ample money to conduct wars, maintain weapons systems, etc., always plenty of cash for that. There's money to give Amazon tax breaks and pay off Big Corn, but a rise in the minium wage will cripple the country. Is it possible to sound more stupid. I think these "battles" are taking place at the level of symbolism, not reality. Trump is no Nazi, the Democrats are not Stalins buying up land to build the new Gulag. The rhetoric is largely moronic and utterly without meaning. Meanwhile, Amazon pays no taxes and the infrastructure rusts. The coal miners won't get their jobs back, there is no need to retract regulations, we were all doing fine with them in place. It's mostly all smoke.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #743 on: October 28, 2019, 03:05:44 pm »

If it's true that there are more leaks now than with previous administrations, it may be interesting to ask why. Is it to do with Trump or is it simply because online media is more pervasive now so there are more opportunities. In some small part though, doesn't Trump sort of invite it since he seems to conduct so much of his policy making on Twitter.

Anyway, isn't he supposed to be such a clever CEO/businessman media-savvy entrepreneur? He had GOP majorities in both houses to begin with but his administration seemed confused right out the gate. And we still hear people complain about how the media is against him. Well, boo-hoo, is my response. Grow a pair and act like a President, I say. Am I really supposed t believe that the "fake news" New York Times has more power that POTUS, that's a reach, isn't it?

And I am also confused about the complaints about secret investigations. Investigations are always conducted in secret, it's the trials that are public. What's wrong with that, seems like a good arrangement to me. Can you imagine televised police interrogations on cable? Those criticisms are a phoney distraction, nothing more.

What's not clever about keeping the Dems in the dark?   ;)
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #744 on: October 28, 2019, 03:10:12 pm »

Q: What reason? That Giuliani was already conspiring with people linked to Russian Oligarchs to create/fabricate dirt?
Trump's son didn't even work at Burisma when the corrupt prosecutor was ousted after combined international pressure agianst corruption.
Instead, a less corrupt prosecutor was put in place.

Q: Then why hide the transcript of the call on a different server with more restricted access than all other call transcripts?

Q: Why the many concerned staffers who knew that when Trump went off-script it caused legal issues?

A: Because they thought/knew it was illegal.

Since day one, the White House staff has been leaking information.  So, in response Trump has been putting certain things in a more secure server to avoid leaks.  This has been reported on and the conversation was not the first item stored in this fashion, nor was it only one of a few. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #745 on: October 28, 2019, 03:12:02 pm »

You do know that the first leak about the raid came from Trump, when he tweeted that something big was coming? It was after the raid, but before they'd confirmed the identity of the dead man, and when it was presumably still secret?

What?  ???

Leaking after the raid was over and a success does not compromise the mission or lead to soldiers being killed.  It's leaks beforehand that do. 
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #746 on: October 28, 2019, 03:24:06 pm »

... as if dire consequences will emerge if one side or another is picked...

Venezuela didn't reach the dire stage it is in currently the day after the election of a socialist. It took years. Soviet Union lasted 70+ years, etc.

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #747 on: October 28, 2019, 03:25:51 pm »

Since day one, the White House staff has been leaking information.  So, in response Trump has been putting certain things in a more secure server to avoid leaks.  This has been reported on and the conversation was not the first item stored in this fashion, nor was it only one of a few.

Aw come on, man... you’re spinning as hard as Alan now.  This is like when a cheating husband gets busted and then starts whining about how the REAL breach of trust is that his wife was looking at his texts. 

The reason why previously buttoned up civil servants are doing this is because Donald Trump does dangerous, uninformed, ill-advised things.  Period. 
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #748 on: October 28, 2019, 03:29:40 pm »

It's a wonderful thing that The Coffee Corner has a "Mark Read" button.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #749 on: October 28, 2019, 03:30:27 pm »

... The reason why previously buttoned up civil servants are doing this is because Donald Trump does dangerous, uninformed, ill-advised things.  Period. 

Or the commies have finally succeeded in their long march through the institutions.

Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #750 on: October 28, 2019, 03:32:12 pm »

Venezuela didn't reach the dire stage it is in currently the day after the election of a socialist. It took years. Soviet Union lasted 70+ years, etc.

How would you describe the domestic political stance of Russia today?

It might even be seen as the ultimate success story of present-and future-day capitalism/globalism where more and more is controlled by fewer and fewer. In the end, it boils down to much the same thing it always has: the magnates and the proles.

If there's a difference, today the gloves are off and they no longer give a shit if the rest of us see through the smoke and around the mirrors: we stopped counting a while ago.

I guess they learned from the Romans, with the difference that as we have almost run out of lions and Christians, they gave us baseball, cricket and football to occupy our feeble minds. Cycling has started to be an alternative distraction from the realities over which we lost control, so put your money - what's left at the end of the week or whatever - into bicycles; they have another couple of decades for growth.

Rob
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 03:40:21 pm by Rob C »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #751 on: October 28, 2019, 03:34:40 pm »

How would you describe the political stance of Russia today?... In the end, it boils down to much the same thing it always has...

A simple question: where would you rather live? In the present day Russia, or in the Soviet one?

Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #752 on: October 28, 2019, 03:41:39 pm »

A simple question: where would you rather live? In the present day Russia, or in the Soviet one?


Does a Russian edition of Vogue really make that much difference?

Rob

PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #753 on: October 28, 2019, 05:04:10 pm »

A simple question: where would you rather live? In the present day Russia, or in the Soviet one?

Pointless question. Just because you prefer A over B does not mean A is OK.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #754 on: October 28, 2019, 05:19:48 pm »

You do know that the first leak about the raid came from Trump, when he tweeted that something big was coming? It was after the raid, but before they'd confirmed the identity of the dead man, and when it was presumably still secret?
The president does not and cannot leak information-classified or not. He controls it as President.  As such he determines classification and when to declassify information.  If he feels that certain "secrets' would be better off declassified so the public can know, that's perfectly acceptable.  He does not need anyone else's authority.  He is the authority.  Presidents do that all the time.  The problem is when others leak information that could influence policy.  It's not their prerogative to make those determinations.  People go to jail for leaking classified information. 

John Camp

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #755 on: October 28, 2019, 05:44:51 pm »

Oh no, maybe the US will push up the tariffs on tulip bulbs and maple syrup if we don't stop!

Personally speaking, I couldn't care less if they impeach him or not. It risks making him a martyr, as improbable as that sounds. It's not as if they need to keep the pressure on to induce bizarre behaviour on Trump's part, he's more than happy to oblige all on his own. I see that today he's attacking officials in Chicago for some reason or other. It's a sure sign that politics is screwed up these days because at first blush it should be easy to find someone reasonable to win against him, but the internecine fight among the Democrats seems to be as poisoned as anything else. Why should that be?

It's ironic to listen to these "debates" as if dire consequences will emerge if one side or another is picked. We have all the food and shelter we need, there is always ample money to conduct wars, maintain weapons systems, etc., always plenty of cash for that. There's money to give Amazon tax breaks and pay off Big Corn, but a rise in the minium wage will cripple the country. Is it possible to sound more stupid. I think these "battles" are taking place at the level of symbolism, not reality. Trump is no Nazi, the Democrats are not Stalins buying up land to build the new Gulag. The rhetoric is largely moronic and utterly without meaning. Meanwhile, Amazon pays no taxes and the infrastructure rusts. The coal miners won't get their jobs back, there is no need to retract regulations, we were all doing fine with them in place. It's mostly all smoke.

I agree with all of that except the bolded part. He's not a capital "N" Nazi, but he certainly fits the mold a Mussolini-type fascist -- the whole great man thing, the belief in conspiracies against the great leader, the taste for dictatorial regimes, the attacks on a legitimately-elected Congress, the encouraging of violence against opponents. It's really all there. Before I go further, I'd like to say that I really have no problems with a conservative President, which Trump isn't. When Reagan was President, I went about my business and didn't worry too much about politics. I was exactly the same way during the Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama administrations -- they were all very different, but they seemed to be taking care of the nation's business in their own particular ways. Trump seems intent on tearing down the country, and that was right out in the open with his first Svengali, Steve Bannon, who is quite explicitly a fascist.

"Darkness is good: Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan. That's power. It only helps us when they get it wrong. When they're blind to who we are and what we're doing." -- Steve Bannon.

(Bannon had more to say in Michael Wolff's anti-Trump books, and though the books are distinctly anti-Trump, Bannon hasn't denied the quotes.)

From the Wiki:
In his 2019 book Siege, Wolff wrote, “Trump was vulnerable because for 40 years he had run what increasingly seemed to resemble a semi-criminal enterprise,” then quoted Bannon as saying, “I think we can drop the 'semi' part.” Wolff wrote that Bannon predicted investigations into Trump's finances would be his political downfall, quoting Bannon as saying "This is where it isn't a witch hunt – even for the hard core, this is where he turns into just a crooked business guy, and one worth $50 million instead of $10 billion. Not the billionaire he said he was, just another scumbag.")

Not a Nazi with a capital N, but certainly a fascist, although in my heart of hearts, I don't think Trump is smart enough to know what fascism is. He doesn't have a theory, he just does it.


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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #756 on: October 28, 2019, 05:46:55 pm »

It's a wonderful thing that The Coffee Corner has a "Mark Read" button.

Ain't that the truth. Sadly for me...

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #757 on: October 28, 2019, 06:34:54 pm »

Pointless question. Just because you prefer A over B does not mean A is OK.

Except when your alternative is B.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #758 on: October 28, 2019, 06:39:56 pm »

... He's not a capital "N" Nazi, but he certainly fits the mold a Mussolini-type fascist...

...Trump seems intent on tearing down the country...

My, my... TDS in full display.

kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #759 on: October 28, 2019, 06:40:41 pm »

Pointless question. Just because you prefer A over B does not mean A is OK.

Except when your alternative is B.

not even then
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