Pages: 1 ... 23 24 [25] 26 27 ... 196   Go Down

Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 136614 times)

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #480 on: October 23, 2019, 09:33:05 am »

I'm not sure how the nomination process is done in the Democratic Party, but is it possible for an outsider to enter the group that is already running for the candidacy for a while? That would put those having had to already spend money at a disadvantage.

Personally, and from a distance, I'm not overly impressed by the line-up. It doesn't look like the best candidate to beat the probable Republican nominee is being selected.

Cheers,
Bart

There are deadlines on a state by state basis for putting in your application to get on the primary ballot.  We are about 3 months away from the deadline for CA and TX, so right now, anyone can still enter the race. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4344
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #481 on: October 23, 2019, 11:14:55 am »

Damn, and this is in the NY Times! 

Anxious Democratic Establishment Asks, ‘Is There Anybody Else?’

And it looks like Hillary may jump back in for a 2020 run.  It is mud slinging time.  Personally I think she is done.  Maybe before Farrow book came out, she had a chance.  However now that it is evident that Hillary also tried to squash the Weinstein story, I cant see her surviving the Me2 people. 

Personally, I would like to see Michael R. Bloomberg enter the race.
There is no surprise here!  Lots of us who are reliable Democratic voters are uncomfortable with the three front runners for various reasons.  I made my first contribution of the year to a Dem running and it was not anyone of those.  Former Senator and Secretary of State Clinton should just fade away like an old soldier.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #482 on: October 23, 2019, 11:18:11 am »

Don't know why you want to portrait yourself as unnecessarily more dim than you actually are, but let's explain.

In a multi-party election system, in the case of Canada 5 parties, there is a chance that a multi-party coalition government will have to be formed. These parties will not participate unless a fair share of their specific policies find their way to the day-to-day governing and future legislation. In this way, they can create a coalition government that represents more than 50% of the population, AKA democracy.
Your insult wasn;t required Bart.  You're better than that.

The point is non-Americans like yourself and others from Canada laugh at the America presidential electoral system.  How could Hillary who received 48% of the popular vote lose the election to Trump who received less votes at 46%.  That's not a democracy.  When we explain our electoral system, foreigners argue that it should be the popular vote that counts.  Well, there in Canada, Trudeau got 33.1% and his opponent got a higher popular vote at 34.1%.  But Trudeau's opponent doesn't become  the leader, just like Clinton.  There are other rules and processes that affect the selection.  Well, those aren't "democratic" either  at least not based on popular vote.  The parties have to work behind closed doors in smoke filled rooms to make special deals to select the PM.  Doesn;t sound democratic to me.  At least with our electors, almost all are required to follow what their state's popular vote was. 

Think about it.  69.1% of Canadians voted against Trudeau.  Only 54% of American voted against Trump.  Sounds like America is more "democratic" the Canada and other Parliamentary systems. 

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #483 on: October 23, 2019, 11:23:31 am »

There is no surprise here!  Lots of us who are reliable Democratic voters are uncomfortable with the three front runners for various reasons.  I made my first contribution of the year to a Dem running and it was not anyone of those.  Former Senator and Secretary of State Clinton should just fade away like an old soldier.
Why do you think she attacked Gabbard? 

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #484 on: October 23, 2019, 11:42:29 am »

An observation, followed by an explanation, in case the observation is wrong..

Ok. Reported to the moderator.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #485 on: October 23, 2019, 11:51:28 am »

Ok. Reported to the moderator.
Slobodan, I appreciate your concern. Let me deal with Bart directly.  I'm not interested in raising the issue to the moderator.  Thanks.

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4763
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #486 on: October 23, 2019, 11:54:06 am »


The point is non-Americans like yourself and others from Canada laugh at the America presidential electoral system.  How could Hillary who received 48% of the popular vote lose the election to Trump who received less votes at 46%.  That's not a democracy.  When we explain our electoral system, foreigners argue that it should be the popular vote that counts.  Well, there in Canada, Trudeau got 33.1% and his opponent got a higher popular vote at 34.1%.  But Trudeau's opponent doesn't become  the leader, just like Clinton.  There are other rules and processes that affect the selection.  Well, those aren't "democratic" either  at least not based on popular vote.  The parties have to work behind closed doors in smoke filled rooms to make special deals to select the PM.  Doesn;t sound democratic to me.  At least with our electors, almost all are required to follow what their state's popular vote was. 

Think about it.  69.1% of Canadians voted against Trudeau.  Only 54% of American voted against Trump.  Sounds like America is more "democratic" the Canada and other Parliamentary systems.

No one laughed, they simply expressed reservations about the process. We're allowed to do that.

As to the outcomes in a multi-party system, that was explained above. Did you not read it? If you did, why repeat the same question. In any case, no one ever claimed that we non-Americans get it exactly correct either, so I don't understand the point of even bringing it up. It is not necessary to take everything personally.
Logged
--
Robert

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #487 on: October 23, 2019, 11:54:41 am »

 Finally, a democrat giving the truth why so many people voted for Trump.

Gabbard, the democrat from Hawaii running for democratic nomination for president says:
'Hillary, your foreign policy was a disaster for our country and the world,' the 38-year-old military combat veteran who served in the Iraq War said.

'It’s resulted in the deaths and injuries of so many of my brothers and sisters in uniform. It’s devastated entire countries, millions of lives lost, refugee crises, our enemy al-Qaeda/ISIS strengthened,' she added.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7603427/Tulsi-Gabbard-continues-rip-Hillary-Clinton-saying-Step-throne.html

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #488 on: October 23, 2019, 11:58:43 am »

No one laughed, they simply expressed reservations about the process. We're allowed to do that.

As to the outcomes in a multi-party system, that was explained above. Did you not read it? If you did, why repeat the same question. In any case, no one ever claimed that we non-Americans get it exactly correct either, so I don't understand the point of even bringing it up. It is not necessary to take everything personally.
The Point is one shouldn't throw stones when you live in a glass house.  I want to remind people in countries with parliamentary systems that your processes aren't exactly "democratic" either.  The only reason we heard from them, is because they're upset that Hillary didn't win because of the electoral system.  It was about Hillary, and who won, not the system that concerned them.  The argument about popular vote was just a ploy.  Their systems may be more undemocratic than America's. 

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4763
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #489 on: October 23, 2019, 12:07:10 pm »

The point is non-Americans like yourself and others from Canada laugh at the America presidential electoral system.  How could Hillary who received 48% of the popular vote lose the election to Trump who received less votes at 46%.  That's not a democracy.  When we explain our electoral system, foreigners argue that it should be the popular vote that counts.  Well, there in Canada, Trudeau got 33.1% and his opponent got a higher popular vote at 34.1%.  But Trudeau's opponent doesn't become  the leader, just like Clinton.  There are other rules and processes that affect the selection.  Well, those aren't "democratic" either  at least not based on popular vote.  The parties have to work behind closed doors in smoke filled rooms to make special deals to select the PM.  Doesn;t sound democratic to me.  At least with our electors, almost all are required to follow what their state's popular vote was. 

Clicked Send too soon, didn't complete my thought.

Another thing to keep in mind is that in a parliamentary system, the Prime Minister is not a President and does not have the executive powers that the US President has. Besides that, we now have a minority government, that is, his party does not have a numerical majority in Parliament. This constrains what he can do, because he needs to pass legislation that meets with the approval of people not in his party. Many people believe, and I won't argue against it, that minority governments can produce good legislation because of that. Also, in a parliamentary system, if the governing party loses a vote of non-confidence, they can be thrown out and an election immediately called. So the day to day workings of the government is different than in  the US, and it's very difficult to make general comparisons of the type of "this one is more democratic than that one." 
Logged
--
Robert

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #490 on: October 23, 2019, 12:12:40 pm »

It should be noted that the US has independent candidates as well, not only in presidential, but also in congressional elections. It also has a multi-party system. It is just that the other parties can not get enough popular support at present. The most notable independent congressional member is Bernie Sanders.

"Since 1877, there have been 113 third-party U.S. Representatives"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_members_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 12:15:57 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4763
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #491 on: October 23, 2019, 12:17:04 pm »

The Point is one shouldn't throw stones when you live in a glass house.  I want to remind people in countries with parliamentary systems that your processes aren't exactly "democratic" either.  The only reason we heard from them, is because they're upset that Hillary didn't win because of the electoral system.  It was about Hillary, and who won, not the system that concerned them.  The argument about popular vote was just a ploy.  Their systems may be more undemocratic than America's.

No one is throwing stones, stop making everything personal. And why are you still talking about Hilary? The election was 3 years ago, the discussion has moved on. Hilary and Obama are not in any elected office, they are history. That particular battle in the culture wars is over.

Inadequacies in systems are pointed out, that's what discussions are for.

In any case, I partly agree with you. I can understand not liking the Electoral College system, but fighting gerrymandering and voter suppression might be a better use of people's time, complaining about the Electoral College is probably not fruitful. It may be ok as part of a discussion of constitutional amendments maybe, but there are more immediate ways to insure fairer elections.

Not to mention election funding reform. Allowing unlimited funding is a threat to your republic, many people feel. Would your "founding fathers" have been ok with what you have now, do you think?
Logged
--
Robert

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4763
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #492 on: October 23, 2019, 12:20:41 pm »

It should be noted that the US has independent candidates as well, not only in presidential, but also in congressional elections. It also has a multi-party system. It is just that the other parties can not get enough popular support at present. The most notable independent congressional member is Bernie Sanders.

"Since 1877, there have been 113 third-party U.S. Representatives"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_members_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives

Although third-parties are not ruled out, they exist mostly in theory, it seems to me. The two main parties have sown things up very well, haven't they. But I don't know enough about the history to know why that's happened, but lots of people around the world find it very odd.
Logged
--
Robert

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #493 on: October 23, 2019, 12:24:37 pm »

Although third-parties are not ruled out, they exist mostly in theory, it seems to me. The two main parties have sown things up very well, haven't they. But I don't know enough about the history to know why that's happened, but lots of people around the world find it very odd.

The electoral college, plain and simple.  Since it is a winner takes all in the state vote, third party candidates typically never stand a chance at even winning some electoral votes.  So from a party forming perspective, why bother trying to create a third parties if you know you will never have any national influence in the executive branch.  This is exactly why Bernie is running as a Dem, even though he is not really one. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #494 on: October 23, 2019, 12:42:24 pm »

Political positions of Donald Trump
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Donald_Trump

Not sure what this has anything to do with my explanation on our two party system. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #495 on: October 23, 2019, 01:04:15 pm »

Was hoping to get an explanation. Could the frequent switching of sides have to do with influence on candidate selection...

It shall be noted that Trump had never been a candidate for anything political until 2016 elections. Thus his frequent switching has nothing to do with his own candidacy. He, and many others, switch party affiliation for a different reason - voting. Depending on state legislation, one may or may not vote in a party primary unless officially affiliated with the party. In some states you can, in others you can not. For instance, in Illinois, I was able to participate in a primary voting without declaring my affiliation. When I moved to Florida, however, if I want to vote in primaries, I would have to choose sides first. In presidential and congressional elections, however, that doesn't matter.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #496 on: October 23, 2019, 01:45:04 pm »

New York State, where Trump is a resident and votes,  requires registration to a particular party to vote in that party's nomination process. That probably accounts for his changes from time to time.

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4763
    • Robert's Photos
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #497 on: October 23, 2019, 01:47:14 pm »

It shall be noted that Trump had never been a candidate for anything political until 2016 elections. Thus his frequent switching has nothing to do with his own candidacy. He, and many others, switch party affiliation for a different reason - voting. Depending on state legislation, one may or may not vote in a party primary unless officially affiliated with the party. In some states you can, in others you can not. For instance, in Illinois, I was able to participate in a primary voting without declaring my affiliation. When I moved to Florida, however, if I want to vote in primaries, I would have to choose sides first. In presidential and congressional elections, however, that doesn't matter.

What is the reason for requiring affiliation in the places where it is required?
Logged
--
Robert

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #498 on: October 23, 2019, 01:51:57 pm »

What is the reason for requiring affiliation in the places where it is required?

There is a fear, which I think is unfounded, that voters of the opposite party will vote in your primary to ensure the most radical/worse candidate gets on the ticket.  This would certainly increase the chances of the other party winning.  However, I cant really see this being something that would actually happen. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18090
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #499 on: October 23, 2019, 01:54:23 pm »

What is the reason for requiring affiliation in the places where it is required?

One possibility, I assume, is to prevent, say, a Democrat coming to a Republican primary and vote for a candidate they think they could beat easier in the general election. Just guessing.

Pages: 1 ... 23 24 [25] 26 27 ... 196   Go Up