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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 136581 times)

John Camp

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #360 on: October 17, 2019, 10:43:12 pm »

Both the Post and the Times are reporting the G7 contract will be worth millions to Doral County Club -- the G7 attracts thousands of people, who will not all stay at Doral, but many of whom will use Doral services. It's absolutely unbelievable. Another question that occurs to me is whether, in the end, Trump can issue a formal pardon of himself for any crimes committed as President, because I think this may be an actual indictable crime, even if he can't be indicted until after he leaves office.

A more pressing question for the G7 people will be whether they're able to hear anything at the conference, since Doral is more or less at the end of the runways of Miami International Airport. 8-)

 
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texshooter

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #361 on: October 18, 2019, 01:41:44 am »


Politics is the new religion.

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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #362 on: October 18, 2019, 07:35:16 am »

Yeah - I hear you.  We're having two different discussions in a sense.  On one hand, there's the philosophical argument about whether Donald Trump is fit for the presidency.  I believe that the available evidence, ranging from the constant questionable decisions, to the self-dealing, to the nepotism, to the unwillingness to properly learn about things that impact every American's (and to be honest, much of the rest of the world's) life, to the abuse of power and seeming inability to actually run the government correctly, (and the various criminal/civil violations contained in these actions) make him unfit.  It's my belief that he should be impeached and removed on that basis - it's our duty to do so.  It's NOT about policy disagreements - that, as they say, are what elections are for.  Its about incompetence.  High crimes and misdemeanors in the parlance of the founders, or wanton breach of fiduciary duty in the language of today.

After that, who knows.  You may be (in fact I think you probably are) correct about the results of a Warren nomination, though I'm not at all convinced that her ideas are any wackier than some of the stuff I hear from the right.  There will be the sexists that won't vote for her because she's "shrill" and the know-nothings who won't vote for her because she's not "someone I can have a beer with" and total fools who won't vote for her because she's a "liar" even though every third word out of Trump's mouth is a lie, and so on and so on.

I'm not sure anymore, however, that the two things are relevant to one another.  For a long time I was on the side of impeachment being a bad political move for Democrats with an eye toward 2020.  But the more we find out, the more I'm convinced that a Republican administration with some sort of competence and compassion (even if I disagree with their philosophies) is a fair trade to make so long as the incompetent in office now is removed.   (And that's a nasty position to have to take, considering Mike Pence is pretty much a horror show himself.)

I wont disagree with you there, both far left and far right ideas are typically not very sound.  But Trump is pretty much a centrist and Warren is super far left.  It will be an easy choice for most of the country. 

Just saw another interesting poll, all demographics for pretty much every grouping (race, sex, religion, political affiliation), with the exception of progressives, at least 2/3s thinks the economy is doing very well.  So Warrens continued attack on the economy is a disconnect with typical Americans, and not only that, she is asking people to chance their new found economic success by adopting many extreme socialist policies. 

Even with a downturn, I still cant see the average American getting behind these policies. 

If she gets the ticket, start thinking about 2024, because it will be an easy win for Trump. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #363 on: October 18, 2019, 03:47:38 pm »

Both the Post and the Times are reporting the G7 contract will be worth millions to Doral County Club -- the G7 attracts thousands of people, who will not all stay at Doral, but many of whom will use Doral services. It's absolutely unbelievable. Another question that occurs to me is whether, in the end, Trump can issue a formal pardon of himself for any crimes committed as President, because I think this may be an actual indictable crime, even if he can't be indicted until after he leaves office.

A more pressing question for the G7 people will be whether they're able to hear anything at the conference, since Doral is more or less at the end of the runways of Miami International Airport. 8-)

 
They can use my house. 

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #364 on: October 18, 2019, 03:55:19 pm »

They can use my house.

It's really disturbing that a segment of Americans - you among them - thinks this kind of thing is a joke.  It tells me that you don't care if the president breaks laws and has no ethics as long as you get the result you desire, and that's screwed up.  And actually, even that's not quite right, because getting rid of the human garbage pile sitting in the Oval Office would still get conservatives Pence - a better conservative anyway.  So it's not even your principles - it's *Trump* that people support, and that says a lot about them - nothing good, I might add.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #365 on: October 18, 2019, 04:09:08 pm »

I was in the group that thought Impeachment was a bad idea and should not happen as the election in 2020 is drawing close.  What has been uncovered in the past two weeks has changed my mind as it also has Speaker Pelosi who gave the go ahead for the inquiry.  That the President has been using 'his' lawyer, Mr. Guiliani, to be the point on all of the Ukraine stuff is quite disturbing and several witnesses have already identified this.  The Pentagon is now offering witnesses up which cannot be good for the President.  If the President is so innocent, why are they taking such pains to prevent anyone from testifying??

The President is also under investigation on a number of fronts for possible financial fraud related to various Trump businesses prior to his taking office.  He has filed statements to banks that do not reconcile with property tax assessments and a host of other stuff that is now being untangled. 

Former Senator Jeff Flake said that there would likely be 20 Republican votes in the Senate for Impeachment if there was a secret ballot.  I suspect that's just the baseline number.  One needs only look at the polling of some of the Republican Senators who are up for reelection next year, including McConnell.  They are all quickly tanking.
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #366 on: October 18, 2019, 04:11:58 pm »

Former Senator Jeff Flake said that there would likely be 20 Republican votes in the Senate for Impeachment if there was a secret ballot.
Actually, he said 35.
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texshooter

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #367 on: October 18, 2019, 05:29:27 pm »



Did Trump ask a foreign power to help his re-election campaign?

Or,

Did Trump ask a foreign power to look into potential corruption. 

One of these two motives is a matter of record. But the other will need a mind reader to prove.


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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #368 on: October 18, 2019, 08:08:04 pm »

It's really disturbing that a segment of Americans - you among them - thinks this kind of thing is a joke.  It tells me that you don't care if the president breaks laws and has no ethics as long as you get the result you desire, and that's screwed up.  And actually, even that's not quite right, because getting rid of the human garbage pile sitting in the Oval Office would still get conservatives Pence - a better conservative anyway.  So it's not even your principles - it's *Trump* that people support, and that says a lot about them - nothing good, I might add.
Puleese.  Trump was a billionaire made before he got into politics.  This nickel and dime accusation is just silly.  Why don't you accuse Joe Biden who used his position as Vice President to get his son a $600,000 job with a Ukrainian corporation and thousands more with a $1.5 billion China corporation, with products he has never done business with.  How about Hillary CLinton who used her position as Secretary of State and got foreign countries to "donate" $100's of millions to her and  the former President and her husband Bill Clinton's foundation whee they skimmed off the top and are now worth $100 million personally.  How about the half million speaking engagements they made paid by foreign corporations and countries to gain political access.  Meanwhile TRump's $400,000 salary as president he donates to charity.  And any profit from Doral will likewise be donated to charity or paid to the IRS.   Calling the president of the US a "human garbage pile"  says more about you than Trump. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #369 on: October 18, 2019, 10:08:45 pm »

Hillary Clinton goes off the rails calling fellow Democrat and presidential candidate Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard a "stooge" of the Russians.  Gabbard responds calling Hillary "...the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long..."

Thanks you Tulsi for reminding us why we voted for Trump. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/us/politics/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-russia.html

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #370 on: October 19, 2019, 11:23:38 am »

A sad summary of just the past week in Trumpland https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/19/trump-white-house-staff-051393.

As others have said the constant attention is a pain to put up with, but, geez, how do you not pay attention to this runaway train.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #371 on: October 19, 2019, 12:18:29 pm »

A sad summary of just the past week in Trumpland https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/19/trump-white-house-staff-051393.

As others have said the constant attention is a pain to put up with, but, geez, how do you not pay attention to this runaway train.
The democrats don;t seem to be doing much better.  Hillary is calling fellow democrats Russian stooges.  And the three leaders of the presidential nomination hit parade seem to be having identify problems of their own.  Biden seems to have sold his VP office for monetary gain for his family, Warren changed her race to gain career advancing benefits, and Bernie is a card-carrying, anti-Capitalist Bolshevik.  The Three Amigos.  :)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #372 on: October 19, 2019, 01:11:42 pm »

The democrats don;t seem to be doing much better.  Hillary is calling fellow democrats Russian stooges.  And the three leaders of the presidential nomination hit parade seem to be having identify problems of their own.  Biden seems to have sold his VP office for monetary gain for his family, Warren changed her race to gain career advancing benefits, and Bernie is a card-carrying, anti-Capitalist Bolshevik.  The Three Amigos.  :)

The Democrats are not in power, how could they be doing better?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #373 on: October 19, 2019, 01:14:09 pm »

Puleese, he's been a fraud all his life. How one cannot see through that facade, boggles the mind.

More proof keeps surfacing, which also explains why he doesn't reveal his Tax returns:
Fraud Of Donald Trump's Self-Made Persona Exposed In Father's Financials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM9f2YAKIJg

But this won't distract from the topic at hand, the impeachment inquiry.
Bart, Forbes estimated his wealth at $3.5 billion before he became president.  I just checked and see Forbes new estimate is $3.1 billion.   Wikipedia says Forbes said $6.1 and Bloomberg $5.8 billion.  But what's a billion here or  there?    He's not a poor man in any case.  Does he hype his worth,  Of course.  Does he hype everything else.  Well, of course.  He's a salesman if you haven't noticed.  That's his business to sell the Trump name.  That';s how he makes a lot of his money.  Most of  the buildings that bear his name are not owned by him.  They are owned by others who have paid Trump a fee to use his name.  So the more the Trump name is in the press, the more valuable it becomes. 

Also, you want to have it both ways.  On the one hand you say he's using the presidency to unfairly get people to stay at his hotels in Washington or at his Doral Golf CLub in FLorida or in Scotland and make money off his presidency.  Then you claim his worth is a farce.   How many The van der Wolf Hotel's are in Washington or anywhere else for that matter?  You can't claim he's rich and poor at the same time. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#targetText=In%202016%2C%20Forbes%20estimated%20Trump's,billion%2C%20and%20Bloomberg%20%243%20billion.
https://www.forbes.com/profile/donald-trump/?list=billionaires#292ecae447bd

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #374 on: October 19, 2019, 01:18:48 pm »

The Democrats are not in power, how could they be doing better?
All four are power players in American politics.   Hillary owned the Democrats recently.  She still has enormous power when and if she gives her support to one candidate or another.  Biden was VP under Obama and the other two, Sanders and Warren are two of only 100 current US Senators.  That's power!

faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #375 on: October 19, 2019, 01:21:32 pm »

Also, you want to have it both ways.  On the one hand you say he's using the presidency to unfairly get people to stay at his hotels in Washington or at his Doral Golf CLub in FLorida or in Scotland and make money off his presidency.  Then you claim his worth is a farce.   How many The van der Wolf Hotel's are in Washington or anywhere else for that matter?  You can't claim he's rich and poor at the same time.
Another red herring. No one has said he is poor, just not a rich as he says he is. You call him a salesman; I call him a liar. And there is nothing inconsistent in saying that he is not as rich as he says he is and also saying that he is steering business his way in an unethical manner, whether or not you think his activities are in violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 01:27:06 pm by faberryman »
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #376 on: October 19, 2019, 01:28:34 pm »

All four are power players in American politics.   Hillary owned the Democrats recently.  She still has enormous power when and if she gives her support to one candidate or another.
I don't think anyone listens to what Hilary Clinton has to say. She's a has been.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #377 on: October 19, 2019, 01:33:03 pm »

Another red herring. No one has said he is poor, just not a rich as he says he is. And there is nothing inconsistent in saying that and also saying that he is steering business his way in an unethical manner, whether or not you think his activities are in violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.
Americans don't care whether he's worth $1 billion or 3 billion.  The democrats have spent three years trying to find something to impeach Trump and complaining about things of Trump that the American people, except Trump hating Democrats, don;t care about.  If travelers want to stay in one of his nice hotels like you or I might, then God bless them.  Who cares?  People are more concerned about their health, taxes, and wars in the Middle East.  And Democrats aren't paying attention other than to look for faults in Trump who everyone including Trump supporters agree has loads of them.  He's like a bull in a China shop.  And the three leading Democrat nomination contenders for president meanwhile have enough of their own faults to talk about.    Meanwhile, democrats and Congress in general are not doing their jobs.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #378 on: October 19, 2019, 01:36:05 pm »

I don't think anyone listens to what Hilary Clinton has to say. She's a has been.
You're very mistaken.  If Warren wins the nomination, she's going to need both the Clintons for support to get the Black vote. 

faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #379 on: October 19, 2019, 01:37:03 pm »

You're very mistaken.  If Warren wins the nomination, she's going to need both the Clintons for support to get the Black vote.
You don't strike me as an expert on the black vote. Blacks are going to overwhelmingly vote for the Democrat candidate regardless of who it is. The only question is how many turn out. I don't think the Clintons endorsing the Democratic candidate, which they surely will, will make the slightest difference in that regard.  The election will be close enough that it will turn on how many idiots vote for the third party candidates instead of the Democrat, just as in 2016. The second choice of the people that voted for Jill Stein was not Trump.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 01:59:47 pm by faberryman »
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