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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 136548 times)

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #140 on: October 03, 2019, 09:03:34 pm »

There is no way, regardless of what might come of this, that Warren would ever have my vote.  Her policies, all of them, are lunacy.

Not all of them, but she's certainly not my preferred candidate.   Then again, she's clearly more suited to the office than Donald Trump, not that that's saying much. 

And all this is doing is ensuring Biden is ruined and Warren gets on the ticket.

Yeah - I think you're right about this.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #141 on: October 03, 2019, 09:40:02 pm »

Not all of them, but she's certainly not my preferred candidate.   Then again, she's clearly more suited to the office than Donald Trump, not that that's saying much. 

Yeah - I think you're right about this.

Nope! 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #142 on: October 03, 2019, 10:30:09 pm »

I still think that Trump was the whistleblower to get rid of Biden.  On the other hand, it could have been Dems on the left who wanted to get rid of both Biden and Trump and found a very left whistleblower to file the papers.    Another reason why the guy or gal should be known.

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #143 on: October 03, 2019, 10:51:51 pm »

Nope!

I mean, it's not really debatable.   You may not like her policy proposals, and you may love the proposals that are coming out of the Republican party right now, but there's no logical way to argue that Donald Trump is more capable or suited to making critical decisions that impact 365 million people, even if you don't like the answers she comes up with.  He's demonstrably ignorant and shows no inclination to learn, because he thinks he knows it all already.  He's driven by emotional reactions to slights real and imagined, and he's making not even a pretense of being a leader for the entirety of the nation.  He has few policy positions that show any understanding of the range of complexity that such things require, and he surrounds himself with ideologues and yes-men who show loyalty to Trump over loyalty to America. He's incompetent, petty, stupid, and arrogant, and that's a horrible, horrible combination for the most important position, literally, in the world.     

And balanced against this, Warren wants to advocate for a $15 minimum wage and heath care of all?  She also wants to get rid of mandatory minimums for non-violent offenders, and a host of other things that are imminently reasonable (In addition to the policy positions she has that are absolutely unreasonable like the wholesale wiping out of student debt and using the government to break up companies she deems dangerous),  BUT... 1) You can't tell me that Trump doesn't have an equal number of nonsense policy positions, AND, 2) That's what Congress is for - to pass laws. They should stop abrogating that duty to the executive and then we wouldn't have to worry about our elected executive doing outrageously stupid stuff.  (Just read that, and if that paints a picture of fitness for office, I don't know what else to tell you.)




« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 11:08:08 pm by James Clark »
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James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #144 on: October 03, 2019, 10:57:02 pm »

I still think that Trump was the whistleblower to get rid of Biden.  On the other hand, it could have been Dems on the left who wanted to get rid of both Biden and Trump and found a very left whistleblower to file the papers.    Another reason why the guy or gal should be known.

Huh?  May I remind you that the *Trump-appointed IG* found the report credible and relevant.  I know the narrative today is that the whistleblower is some far-left mole that conspired with Adam Schiff to fabricate the entirety of the story, but frankly that's absurd.  The actual facts of the matter seem to be that the whistleblower came to the relevant congressional committee with the report, and the staffer told them, correctly, to take it to the IG.  (You can distinguish this from the WRONG way to do it by looking at what the Trump team did when the Russians came to them with alleged info on Trump.  in THAT case they eagerly took the meeting and then lied about it, while never informing the FBI as is proper)
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #145 on: October 04, 2019, 12:03:13 am »

Huh?  May I remind you that the *Trump-appointed IG* found the report credible and relevant.  I know the narrative today is that the whistleblower is some far-left mole that conspired with Adam Schiff to fabricate the entirety of the story, but frankly that's absurd.  The actual facts of the matter seem to be that the whistleblower came to the relevant congressional committee with the report, and the staffer told them, correctly, to take it to the IG.  (You can distinguish this from the WRONG way to do it by looking at what the Trump team did when the Russians came to them with alleged info on Trump.  in THAT case they eagerly took the meeting and then lied about it, while never informing the FBI as is proper)

James, I was being ironic.  I was trying to make the point that Trump couldn't have done a better job of destroying Biden, his biggest competitor if he wins the nomination, if he was the whistleblower himself.  Now Trump is doubling down asking China to investigate the Bidens calling them crooks.  Warren must be smiling.  The House is putting away Biden for her by trying to impeach Trump because he's calling the Bidens crooks and asking for investigations.     Of course, Trump is doing this for political reasons.  But the press won;t be able to defend Biden too much longer by ignoring in the media what happened in Ukraine and now China.  With Sanders sick with heart problems, the left vote will go increasingly to Warren.  She'll take the lead and Biden will soon be asking for immunity from prosecution.  Then Trump will ask for an investigation of Warren for lying about her heritage.  Minorities will be pissed at her for doing that trying to steal their heritage.  They won't vote for her.  Maybe Hillary will get back into the race. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #146 on: October 04, 2019, 12:05:10 am »

Here's the article on CHina.

Trump Publicly Urges China to Investigate the Bidens
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/us/politics/trump-china-bidens.html

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #147 on: October 04, 2019, 12:44:11 am »

I mean, it's not really debatable.   You may not like her policy proposals, and you may love the proposals that are coming out of the Republican party right now, but there's no logical way to argue that Donald Trump is more capable or suited to making critical decisions that impact 365 million people, even if you don't like the answers she comes up with.  He's demonstrably ignorant and shows no inclination to learn, because he thinks he knows it all already.  He's driven by emotional reactions to slights real and imagined, and he's making not even a pretense of being a leader for the entirety of the nation.  He has few policy positions that show any understanding of the range of complexity that such things require, and he surrounds himself with ideologues and yes-men who show loyalty to Trump over loyalty to America. He's incompetent, petty, stupid, and arrogant, and that's a horrible, horrible combination for the most important position, literally, in the world.     

And balanced against this, Warren wants to advocate for a $15 minimum wage and heath care of all?  She also wants to get rid of mandatory minimums for non-violent offenders, and a host of other things that are imminently reasonable (In addition to the policy positions she has that are absolutely unreasonable like the wholesale wiping out of student debt and using the government to break up companies she deems dangerous),  BUT... 1) You can't tell me that Trump doesn't have an equal number of nonsense policy positions, AND, 2) That's what Congress is for - to pass laws. They should stop abrogating that duty to the executive and then we wouldn't have to worry about our elected executive doing outrageously stupid stuff.  (Just read that, and if that paints a picture of fitness for office, I don't know what else to tell you.)





Trump wants to expand Medicare.  What's Warren offering?  That doesn't seem so stupid.  Seems fit for office to me. 


"Targeting 'Medicare For All' Proposals, Trump Lays Out His Vision For Medicare"
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/10/03/766816709/targeting-medicare-for-all-proposals-trump-lays-out-his-vision-for-medicare

jeremyrh

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #148 on: October 04, 2019, 04:14:42 am »

But isn't a person in authority supposed to act for all, and not pick sides?
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #149 on: October 04, 2019, 06:05:41 am »

But isn't a person in authority supposed to act for all, and not pick sides?

Don't be silly: the person in authority has but one single, sacred duty: to ensure re-election next time.

Unless that person is BoJo, of course, where the responsibility is to do the above while creating the biggest social mess and upheaval this side of war. And no, it's no egalitarian fantasy that is being proposed: quite the opposite.

And that's my take on both matters.

;-)

RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #150 on: October 04, 2019, 09:45:23 am »

Anybody reading about the "impeachment" blowing up in the Democrats' faces, or do your "news media" ignore that kind of news?
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #151 on: October 04, 2019, 09:57:38 am »

I mean, it's not really debatable.   You may not like her policy proposals, and you may love the proposals that are coming out of the Republican party right now, but there's no logical way to argue that Donald Trump is more capable or suited to making critical decisions that impact 365 million people, even if you don't like the answers she comes up with.  He's demonstrably ignorant and shows no inclination to learn, because he thinks he knows it all already.  He's driven by emotional reactions to slights real and imagined, and he's making not even a pretense of being a leader for the entirety of the nation.  He has few policy positions that show any understanding of the range of complexity that such things require, and he surrounds himself with ideologues and yes-men who show loyalty to Trump over loyalty to America. He's incompetent, petty, stupid, and arrogant, and that's a horrible, horrible combination for the most important position, literally, in the world.     

And balanced against this, Warren wants to advocate for a $15 minimum wage and heath care of all?  She also wants to get rid of mandatory minimums for non-violent offenders, and a host of other things that are imminently reasonable (In addition to the policy positions she has that are absolutely unreasonable like the wholesale wiping out of student debt and using the government to break up companies she deems dangerous),  BUT... 1) You can't tell me that Trump doesn't have an equal number of nonsense policy positions, AND, 2) That's what Congress is for - to pass laws. They should stop abrogating that duty to the executive and then we wouldn't have to worry about our elected executive doing outrageously stupid stuff.  (Just read that, and if that paints a picture of fitness for office, I don't know what else to tell you.)

You have to look at the whole package, which means you need to consider Warren's policies.  The policies she has been selling 24/7 at her rallies are beyond nuts, including the $15 minimum wage btw.  (Yes, that is nuts, it would be a total shock to the economy, would only increase automation at a much higher rate and keep young people from getting their first job.  No teenager is worth $15 a hour.) 

In a Trump vs. Warren race, there is nothing you could say to convince me to vote for Warren.  She has already ruined herself due to the super far left ideas she is pushing, and I would bet the majority of those in the swing states would agree. 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 10:37:36 am by JoeKitchen »
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #152 on: October 04, 2019, 02:28:46 pm »

You have to look at the whole package, which means you need to consider Warren's policies.  The policies she has been selling 24/7 at her rallies are beyond nuts, including the $15 minimum wage btw.  (Yes, that is nuts, it would be a total shock to the economy, would only increase automation at a much higher rate and keep young people from getting their first job.  No teenager is worth $15 a hour.) 

In a Trump vs. Warren race, there is nothing you could say to convince me to vote for Warren.  She has already ruined herself due to the super far left ideas she is pushing, and I would bet the majority of those in the swing states would agree.


Looks like a lot of assumptions there; do you really believe that automation, to the max affordable and possible, is being hampered out of some desire to keep paying employees a salary? You have to be kidding. Business is about getting the most out for the least in; with a qualifier: artists and also shamateur photographers who have an ability to live on air and ego. Instead of cheap photos and paintings, they should conspire to market that ability to thrive on nothing. They would clean up big time, not a couple of cents on the dollar.

Regarding teenagers and their worth not topping fifteen bucks an hour: you are badly out of touch: consider influencers and sports people and musos. And they are just the media-visible ones, and don't include those working their way through college and mowing lawns and washing cars. I won't mention the red light "workers" and drugs mules etc. etc. all of whom are worth a great deal more. The child labour market is supposed to be officially dead; many teens can do the same job as older people whose only attribute is an older passport number.

In fact, your position reads like something my grandparents might have espoused in the 50s.

:-)

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #153 on: October 04, 2019, 03:55:23 pm »

Wages should be determined between employers and employees, not the government.  Setting wage levels is like the government setting minimum or maximum costs for products.  Product pricing create black markets.  Minimum wages just eliminate jobs at the lower end for the very people who need jobs.  So instead of helping, it hurts them.  It encourages illegal immigration where low paying jobs go to foreigners who actually earn less than the minimum wage eliminating jobs for low level citizens.  The rest of us just pay through taxes for medical, schools, and other care for families of illegals.  Then we build walls, create safe cities for illegals,  and fight about immigration.  Government should mind its business and go fight a war.  That would be less destructive.  :o

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #154 on: October 04, 2019, 04:29:39 pm »

Trump demands vote on impeachment investigation by whole Congress before he'll release documents to their subpoenas which he claims are not legal until the House votes.  This will pressure both Democrats and Republican congressmen  to vote where they are creating problems for themselves.  Pelosi is stuck between a rock and a hard spot.
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/04/767205170/trump-demands-full-house-vote-on-impeachment-before-complying-with-lawmakers

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #155 on: October 04, 2019, 04:41:54 pm »

Trump demands vote on impeachment investigation by whole Congress before he'll release documents to their subpoenas which he claims are not legal until the House votes.  This will pressure both Democrats and Republican congressmen  to vote where they are creating problems for themselves.  Pelosi is stuck between a rock and a hard spot.
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/04/767205170/trump-demands-full-house-vote-on-impeachment-before-complying-with-lawmakers

This assumes that what Trump "claims" is true.  If I had a dollar etc. etc.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #156 on: October 04, 2019, 04:42:00 pm »

Wages should be determined between employers and employees, not the government.  Setting wage levels is like the government setting minimum or maximum costs for products.  Product pricing create black markets.  Minimum wages just eliminate jobs at the lower end for the very people who need jobs.  So instead of helping, it hurts them.  It encourages illegal immigration where low paying jobs go to foreigners who actually earn less than the minimum wage eliminating jobs for low level citizens.  The rest of us just pay through taxes for medical, schools, and other care for families of illegals.  Then we build walls, create safe cities for illegals,  and fight about immigration.  Government should mind its business and go fight a war.  That would be less destructive.  :o

Don't see what this has to do with impeachment. Should employers and employees be allowed to come to a work for food agreement? Maybe indentured servitude?  Would you allow unions?  Where and how would you draw the line at the type of employment contract that is allowed?
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #157 on: October 04, 2019, 04:48:44 pm »

Don't see what this has to do with impeachment.

Nothing. It is a deflection. Right out of the Trump playbook. It is insidious.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #158 on: October 04, 2019, 04:49:47 pm »

Don't see what this has to do with impeachment. Should employers and employees be allowed to come to a work for food agreement? Maybe indentured servitude?  Would you allow unions?  Where and how would you draw the line at the type of employment contract that is allowed?
There are plenty of rules that protect employees and unions.  But the government should not get involved with setting wage levels for the reasons I mentioned above.  I'm the only person I know who is an indentured servant - in my home.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #159 on: October 04, 2019, 04:52:23 pm »

Nothing. It is a deflection. Right out of the Trump playbook. It is insidious.
Trump is fighting back.  You don't really think he'll just roll over do you? 
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