Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Making digital prints look like film prints  (Read 7194 times)

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4132
    • Pieter Kers
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2019, 06:35:04 am »

It's probably not useful comparing digital with darkroom prints as far as texture goes without knowing something about the lenses, paper/emulsion and printing technique.
However one thing that may affect an inkjet print is banding, particularly in masks. A quick way to check this is to make a solar curve on top of the layers. I use it enough to have made an action for it.
The addition of dithering on the masks from CS6 has made life easier, but I still find I may need to add noise to the mask.
Silver FX can also get quite nasty with banding. I don't it much now for that reason. It's quite hard to see on screen without the solar curve to show it up. But I think it shows up in print with somewhat coarse tonal transitions.

+1
I think banding- that is the inability for the inkjet printer to produce perfect ( 16 bit) gradual transitions is a basic problem inherent to the technique the images are printed.
Screens - especially the 10bit feeded screens, are far better for showing the perfect gradual transitions. (On the other hand grain is more pronounced on screen than it is in print)

Of course the right printerprofile might help a lot to overcome some of the banding, but not in all cases...
Fortunately in most of the prints is not an issue.
To prevent introducing banding in the images itself when going from colour to BW I work in 16 bit and use curves only, to change the BW densities of colours,  before changing the image to BW.
In this way the gradual transitions get preserved, they stay continuous.
I noticed the BW-layers in photoshop also may introduce banding
Logged
Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu/la

DavidPalermo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2019, 01:42:53 pm »

Sorry about that, if I translate all my articles to English will cost too much time on it. Maybe you can try google translation for roughly look. a quick link

You can see the images below show absolutely differential between prints using K7 and K3 inks. no necessary to mark which one is K7

Wow! That's very interesting. I have an Epson P800 and I see that Piezography inks are available for it. I may do this. Is the sharpness affected? Since the K7 inks are "smoother" it looks like it may be not as sharp.

Thank you!
Logged

asnapper

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2019, 08:28:40 am »

Wow! That's very interesting. I have an Epson P800 and I see that Piezography inks are available for it. I may do this. Is the sharpness affected? Since the K7 inks are "smoother" it looks like it may be not as sharp.

Thank you!

Could I suggest you order a sample print or even better have one of you sand dune images printed by Cone Editions Studio, they offer both K7 & Piezography Pro ink options.

https://cone-editions.com/sample-proofs/

The Piezography Pro inks are perhaps the way to go if you are looking for a glossy print, plus you have a very flexible range of tones available from cool to warm
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2019, 10:32:06 am »

Iíve been doing K7 Carbon from my drum scans of  film for about 15 years, since whenever k7 came out.

I do work for several clients that are ( were ) masterful silver gelatin printers, so we have direct comparisons to see side by side from all film formats. The extended dynamic range, in the highlights in particular are favored in k7 prints. I use matte only with the pure carbon inkset. Inkjet Mall is supposed to be coming out with two more hues of pure carbon k7 this fall that are a neutral and a less reddish warm hue.

The midtones and highlights are better than the silver And shadows as good or better but of course without that metallic quality. They are like a platinum/palladium print but with silver like dmax and thatís even been improved with the last black offerings.

 Because of sharpening capability and selective sharpening they can be sharper than analogue prints. Overall you really see the dimensionality of k7 in the highlights that go on forever. The piezo pro have less highlight subtlety, but have hue control flexibility and are especially useful for split tone configurations. Of course like any other media, a lot depends on the skill of the printmaker to get the most out of it. Weíve all seen how dull silver prints can be when someone doesnít know what they are doing. I would pull out one of my favorite files that print the best with Epson inks and have inkjet mall do a couple of prints, one with k7 and one with piezo pro - use the same paper. I have found with inkjet the bigger the print the more impressive the impact. I would also ask them about the new two pure carbon hues.

The absolute sharpest results and precision gradients from k7 are out of Studio Print rip, where I started long ago, but very few of us do that anymore. Qtr is so cheap and making profiles easier, not to mention the cost.

For neutral and warm neutral  work due to the longevity and flexibility I use an HPZ3200 on platine with extended profiles that I also like better than silver for a lot of reasons, size capability among them. They donít have quite the subtlety of k7 but I like it better than piezo pro. The hp gloss enhancer is excellent.

But these z3200 printers have been discontinued and they never had desktop versions of that inkset. The new hps z9+,  also with the gloss enhancer incorporated has one less light gray and I donít expect it to equal the z100/3200s, the reason I had mine restored. But eventually Iíll find out.

John



It's probably not useful comparing digital with darkroom prints as far as texture goes without knowing something about the lenses, paper/emulsion and printing technique.
However one thing that may affect an inkjet print is banding, particularly in masks. A quick way to check this is to make a solar curve on top of the layers. I use it enough to have made an action for it.
The addition of dithering on the masks from CS6 has made life easier, but I still find I may need to add noise to the mask.
Silver FX can also get quite nasty with banding. I don't it much now for that reason. It's quite hard to see on screen without the solar curve to show it up. But I think it shows up in print with somewhat coarse tonal transitions.
Logged

DavidPalermo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2019, 03:18:34 pm »

Could I suggest you order a sample print or even better have one of you sand dune images printed by Cone Editions Studio, they offer both K7 & Piezography Pro ink options.

https://cone-editions.com/sample-proofs/

The Piezography Pro inks are perhaps the way to go if you are looking for a glossy print, plus you have a very flexible range of tones available from cool to warm

This is exactly what I did this morning!

I chose the "Piezography Linear" option and the "HAHNEMUHLE PHOTO GLOSS BARYTA" paper because according to them "If you are looking for a print that mimics B&W silver, look no further than Piezography Pro inks on this paper."

So, it'll be interesting to see what their print looks like vs mine.

Thanks!

David
Logged

MfAlab

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
  • Modern Fine Art printing laboratory
    • HSU fine print
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2019, 03:59:33 am »

Very nice smooth transitions with that K7 inkset. Impressive.

Thank you for your kind words.

Wow! That's very interesting. I have an Epson P800 and I see that Piezography inks are available for it. I may do this. Is the sharpness affected? Since the K7 inks are "smoother" it looks like it may be not as sharp.

quick answer: No. The smoother granularity comes from more ink dots fill up the paper surface, no gap between dots. And 7 shades of gray inks make ink dots between different shades un-noticeable by human eyes, density of two neighboring shades are so close. For half tone printing, more dots can produce higher resolution. That's why light colors always link to lower resolution and poor granularity, like very bright sky blue or other colors near white. Because there are too less ink dots to present complete details. And that's why we have light cyan, light magenta and light black for color printing. So K7 inks printing has better performance on both granularity and resolution.

Could I suggest you order a sample print or even better have one of you sand dune images printed by Cone Editions Studio, they offer both K7 & Piezography Pro ink options.
The Piezography Pro inks are perhaps the way to go if you are looking for a glossy print, plus you have a very flexible range of tones available from cool to warm

It's a great suggestion. And seems David already take an action.

But I would like to give another suggestion: order a K7 print rather a PRO one. Because Piezography PRO ink is actually a K4 system, a warmer K3 gray and a cooler K3 gray plus black. I attach some ink curves below to show that. The x-axis is black tone value, y-axis is ink amount.

I’ve been doing K7 Carbon from my drum scans of  film for about 15 years, since whenever k7 came out.

Nice to meet a K7 inks user here. I hope we can talk more, John. Maybe in a K7 print topic.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 06:15:05 am by MfAlab »
Logged
Kang-Wei Hsu
digital printing research & color management
https://www.facebook.com/HSUfineprint

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2019, 02:35:34 pm »


If you want varied print colors and split tones the Pro Series is best.

The most dimensionality is from K7, the highlights are far far beyond anything silver prints could achieve. The high values are like platinum especially on a great Matt rag like Canson. The dmax on both sets are exceptional with their new MK and Pk.

Read on their website about resolution and Jons text comparison between Epson ABW and Piezographty. Iím also amazed at how much additional sharpening I can get away with using k7 !  It may look really oversharpened on the screen but inks can totally handle sharpening like none of the oem inks can.

Ask them about the new K7 hues that are about to be released. They have a new pure carbon that is not as warm as the first k7 Carbon, and a new neutral. Iíve been using these inks for 17 or more years.





Thank you for your kind words.

quick answer: No. The smoother granularity comes from more ink dots fill up the paper surface, no gap between dots. And 7 shades of gray inks make ink dots between different shades un-noticeable by human eyes, density of two neighboring shades are so close. For half tone printing, more dots can produce higher resolution. That's why light colors always link to lower resolution and poor granularity, like very bright sky blue or other colors near white. Because there are too less ink dots to present complete details. And that's why we have light cyan, light magenta and light black for color printing. So K7 inks printing has better performance on both granularity and resolution.

It's a great suggestion. And seems David already take an action.

But I would like to give another suggestion: order a K7 print rather a PRO one. Because Piezography PRO ink is actually a K4 system, a warmer K3 gray and a cooler K3 gray plus black. I put some ink curves below to show that. The x-axis is black tone value, y-axis is ink amount.

Nice to meet a K7 inks user here. I hope we can talk more, John. Maybe in a K7 print topic.
Logged

DavidPalermo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2019, 01:51:24 pm »

order a K7 print rather a PRO one

I ordered "Piezography Linear" (expert mode). I don't see a "Pro" version.

https://cone-editions.com/sample-proofs/

David
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2019, 02:00:48 pm »


Theyíve got them all mixed up on that custom print order form. There is no way to distinguish k7 from the quad pro inks on that order form which is strange. If you want k7 - you have the choice of selenium, which is a good one to start with, neutral, warm neutral, carbon, and special edition which is a split tone set. All the others are the new inks. I would email that you specifically want to see k7 if that is what you want.

For gloss prints they may suggest the pro inks because it has a single pass gloss enhancer coat. I only use k7 matte rag but with their new black has excellent dynamic range.

John



I ordered "Piezography Linear" (expert mode). I don't see a "Pro" version.

https://cone-editions.com/sample-proofs/

David
Logged

MfAlab

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
  • Modern Fine Art printing laboratory
    • HSU fine print
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2019, 02:17:08 am »

Theyíve got them all mixed up on that custom print order form. There is no way to distinguish k7 from the quad pro inks on that order form which is strange. If you want k7 - you have the choice of selenium, which is a good one to start with, neutral, warm neutral, carbon, and special edition which is a split tone set. All the others are the new inks.

That's weird.. Why Jone Cone do that?

I think if David ordered Selenium, Carbon or Special edition, he will get a K7 print. Because the pro inks did not have these tones.
Logged
Kang-Wei Hsu
digital printing research & color management
https://www.facebook.com/HSUfineprint

MfAlab

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
  • Modern Fine Art printing laboratory
    • HSU fine print
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2019, 03:19:57 am »

If you want varied print colors and split tones the Pro Series is best.

Yes, pro inks can make varies tones. But in my opinion, more shade is the key to perfect print. If I want a K4 vari-tone print, just use a P10000/P20000 and no need to wash out Epson OEM inks.

Ask them about the new K7 hues that are about to be released. They have a new pure carbon that is not as warm as the first k7 Carbon, and a new neutral. Iíve been using these inks for 17 or more years.

I'm excited about the new carbon inks too. They announced last October but still not available now. They said "there is other higher priority project" in their forum.  :(

For gloss prints they may suggest the pro inks because it has a single pass gloss enhancer coat. I only use k7 matte rag but with their new black has excellent dynamic range.

The new GCO in Piezography pro inks needs much less ink amount than old GO, and prints like HP GE or Canon +CO gloss ink. Not like old Piezography GO ink needs a second print process and high ink capacity (about 45% in their curves). I think it can be use in K7 system when carefully control total ink amount.
Logged
Kang-Wei Hsu
digital printing research & color management
https://www.facebook.com/HSUfineprint

Paul_Roark

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2019, 11:47:39 am »

>Quote from: deanwork ... "They have a new pure carbon that is not as warm ..."

That would be interesting, if true. 

The appeal of the original MIS Eboni was that it was a pure carbon ink that, particularly in older printers with larger dots, was actually neutral.  It didn't last, however, due to modern printers' smaller dots causing more warmth.  [The reason for this is that as the dot or particle size increases there is more edge relative to area of dot or particle, and it is the edges of the dots/particles that cause the warmth.  Pi D (circumference) increases less than Pi R squared (area) as the dot size increases].  It turns out the neutrality advantage of old Eboni was probably caused by less effective dispersants that caused the ink to have more agglomerated particles which, in effect, increased the average particle sizes.

So far, every "carbon" ink I've tested that is claimed to be neutral has been spiked with color pigs. 

My approach to be best archival neutral print has been to use the best color pigments to pull the naturally warm carbon to neutral.  Sadly, there is no good blue, single-pigment carbon color offset available to us.  (I found a Daniel Smith pigment that did it, but it was not prepared for inkjets, and I don't have the scale to do that, nor did MIS Associates when I suggested it to them.)  So, we have to use a combination of cyan and magenta, or, better, cyan and blue (smaller hue angle).  My current formula uses Canon Lucia pigments to do this.f (See p. 2 of https://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone-2016.pdf, bottom of the page for the formula.)  (Beware that the new Canon "pro" pigs appear to be less lightfast than their older ones, which are still available.)  Note that finding color pigments that have the same fade rate (or close) is needed to avoid a drift into a greenish hue as the magenta used in most (or all) formulas fades faster than the naturally tougher cyan. 

We really need a truly neutral, carbon-tough pigment, but so far, I have not found one.  HP makes a very nice, neutral ink, but it is not in the pure carbon fade rate class.  I assume Epson has made the best LK and LLK it can, but they appear to me to be, in effect, carbon plus cyan.  They are not neutral.

So, my hat's off to anyone who comes up with a truly neutral, pure carbon grade, inkjet compatible pigment.  I suspect it'll take some heavy duty chemistry, and if accomplish, we'll see some believable, third party test results to verify the claims.

FWIW,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2019, 12:43:41 pm »

The new ďpure carbonĒ , that isnít quite as reddish as the k7 Carbon I use, is what that are claiming as ďpure carbonĒ. Iíd have to see them to know if I like it. I love what Iíve been doing the last 10 years but it might be nice to have another k7. They have been totally consistent from batch to batch and besides being the most beautiful gradation Iíve ever used, and now with a darker black, they have never clogged like my Epson inks have on the same printers.

Their new neutral has a new hue apparently, but now I don't see where they have claimed ď pure carbonĒ with that set. I donít even see where they are claiming any longevity improvement, though that may be the case. I couldnít care less what is considered pure anything as long as they have been objectively tested, and it is going to last decently.

I know, Iíve been at this for 20 years now and I have seen a lot of bad color pigments used to neutralize Carbon so Iím totally suspicious of any claims until there is unbiased proof.

The modern carbro pigment transfer process like evercolor that a few people such as Todd Gangler have used gfor 20 years have super stable color pigments but not designed to fit through the nozzle of inkjet tech. donít know if they could be adapted.

https://artandsoulphoto.net/

The HP  Z tests I sent into Aardenburg on a couple of papers are incredibly permanent. There was no observable change at all within the testing period. I donít add any color for pure neutral on Platine with my HP machines and only one point yellow and one point red with the Rag Photographique but even that isnít necessary.

The HP pigments are going to last longer than inkjet receptor coatings. Iím not at all happy though that their new Z9 has removed the light gray. Anyway you look at it that was a bad idea, because if they have better smoothness through refined dot placement, the light gray would define the values even better, and at that point they might have owned monochrome inkjet.

Roy says he is not going to support the new 12 color Epsons with QTR due to the difficulty of writing code for the driver. So your stuck with ABW or the expense of Studio Print which personally I wouldnít rule out as these inks are very stable.


John
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 12:48:35 pm by deanwork »
Logged

DavidPalermo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2019, 05:13:14 pm »

Update:

Well, I received my Cone Edition proof print and I've viewed it under different lighting conditions etc... the biggest thing I notice is it's more neutral than my Epson P800 BW print but not by much as far as I can see. The tonal graduation didn't blow my socks off like I was hoping... maybe because it's just an 8x10in print?

I do like the neutrality though. I'd take a photograph of both prints and post here but I don't think you'd be able to see much. One more thing, I printed on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta 315 gsm and Cone used Hahnemuhle Photo Gloss Baryta. I don't have any of that but I'd like to make a print using it and then compare.
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #74 on: October 19, 2019, 06:41:22 pm »

Yea you need to print both on the same media.

 If you have a spectrometer you should be able to finesse the P800  neutral color balance and tonal ramp for better results with QTR with the oem inks.  If you are using ABW itís not going to get you completely there.  There being the best out of that printer with Epson inks.

Donít know what kind of file you sent out, but my K7 profiles for the 9890 on matte media canít be reproduced with my qtr Epson and Canon inks or any other as far as that goes. The HPZ with a 6,000 patch icc profile comes very close though on Platine but I always wish I had one or two more light grays with everything but K7. I have not tried the new piezography dual quad ďproĒ  set on any kind of media so I canít really comment on that. With my own experience with any of these set ups it requires personalized experimenting and tweaking and testing and as with everything, it just takes time. Great black and white printing has never been easy and never will be.



Update:

Well, I received my Cone Edition proof print and I've viewed it under different lighting conditions etc... the biggest thing I notice is it's more neutral than my Epson P800 BW print but not by much as far as I can see. The tonal graduation didn't blow my socks off like I was hoping... maybe because it's just an 8x10in print?

I do like the neutrality though. I'd take a photograph of both prints and post here but I don't think you'd be able to see much. One more thing, I printed on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta 315 gsm and Cone used Hahnemuhle Photo Gloss Baryta. I don't have any of that but I'd like to make a print using it and then compare.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 09:55:11 pm by deanwork »
Logged

unesco

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 251
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2019, 12:38:11 pm »

Read on their website about resolution and Jons text comparison between Epson ABW and Piezographty. Iím also amazed at how much additional sharpening I can get away with using k7 !  It may look really oversharpened on the screen but inks can totally handle sharpening like none of the oem inks can.

That comparison on Cone's web page about Piezography and ABW is a bit misleading and not a fully fair, since not only inks are compared but also the driver. I print a lot B&W on both 3880 and P800, both ABW, ICC based and using QTR and the thing that makes a lot of difference is QTR. The difference between Epson OEM inks (K3 configuration) and K7 both printed by QTR is not that big as Jon shows on his web page (we also do not know if 720 dpi mode was used on ABW).

After many years of trying different techniques I finally set my printing workflow with OEM inks (K3) and QTR. It can give results quite close to K7. Not in all aspects, but visual differences are not big once you are able to design and optimise proper curves with spectro. Also ABW in P800 is better than previously. I use it also quite often, but made test prints and measurements of all sliders impact on the final results.

The paper used also can give quite a lot of gain. The best process I managed to use for B&W landscape prints is based on 3880 with OEM inks, QTR and Harman Gloss Baryta Warmtone (a bit warm curve). Had K7 prints on HM Cotton Rag Baryta and others and differences are virtually indistinguishable.
Logged

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2019, 05:32:25 pm »

I will agree with you that if you really get down and linearize K3 inks with qtr well everything improves, neutrality, tonal ramp and resolution, or the appearance of sharpness. Because of the delicate overlap of channels, Studio Print is by far the sharpest platform Iíve ever seen with inkjet printing, especially with Jons inks. Itís too bad the more recent printers no longer support Piezography. I really miss that software, but qtr is much easier, though  less subtle.

The new 12 color Epsons and the 10k are not going to be supported by QTR, because they are so different, at least that is what the creator of it keeps saying. Studio Print with Epson inks will be possible, but expensive.

All of my k7 experience is with large format Epsons and matte media like Canson and Entrada. Iíve done numerous comparisons between Qtr k3, Canon with True Black and White and HPz3200 quads and in the high values K7 is superior in dimensionality to them all. What you sacrifice is print hue diversity on all kinds of different papers, and that has to be attempted with the new Pro dual quad set which may or not be visibly that different than k3 with carefully linearized qtr. Until recently piezo required a second pass of the gloss enhancer with gloss media and still does with k7, so far. After the ease and quality of the HP Vivera inks, not something I would have had an interest in.

On a friends p800 we did some tests with qtr and Royís generic curve for fiber gloss On Platine. The color was excellent and a clean non greenish non red cast result. Very nice neutral. By far the best Iíve seen from qtr generic curves with k3 and as neutral as anything Iíve seen. What is neutral to me?, something with no perceivable color cast in both daylight and tungsten light.

John



That comparison on Cone's web page about Piezography and ABW is a bit misleading and not a fully fair, since not only inks are compared but also the driver. I print a lot B&W on both 3880 and P800, both ABW, ICC based and using QTR and the thing that makes a lot of difference is QTR. The difference between Epson OEM inks (K3 configuration) and K7 both printed by QTR is not that big as Jon shows on his web page (we also do not know if 720 dpi mode was used on ABW).

After many years of trying different techniques I finally set my printing workflow with OEM inks (K3) and QTR. It can give results quite close to K7. Not in all aspects, but visual differences are not big once you are able to design and optimise proper curves with spectro. Also ABW in P800 is better than previously. I use it also quite often, but made test prints and measurements of all sliders impact on the final results.

The paper used also can give quite a lot of gain. The best process I managed to use for B&W landscape prints is based on 3880 with OEM inks, QTR and Harman Gloss Baryta Warmtone (a bit warm curve). Had K7 prints on HM Cotton Rag Baryta and others and differences are virtually indistinguishable.
Logged

DavidPalermo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2019, 09:22:32 pm »

If you want varied print colors and split tones the Pro Series is best.

The most dimensionality is from K7, the highlights are far far beyond anything silver prints could achieve. The high values are like platinum especially on a great Matt rag like Canson. The dmax on both sets are exceptional with their new MK and Pk.

Read on their website about resolution and Jons text comparison between Epson ABW and Piezographty. Iím also amazed at how much additional sharpening I can get away with using k7 !  It may look really oversharpened on the screen but inks can totally handle sharpening like none of the oem inks can.

Ask them about the new K7 hues that are about to be released. They have a new pure carbon that is not as warm as the first k7 Carbon, and a new neutral. Iíve been using these inks for 17 or more years.



Hey Dean - what Canson paper are you referring to? I have two sample packs I'd like to try. They contain 6 samples:

Rag Photographique 210gsm
Platine Fibre Rag 310gsm
Baryta Photographique 310gsm
Photo Satin Premium RC 270gsm
Photo Hig Gloss Premium RC 315gsm
Arches Aquarelle 240gsm

Ideally I prefer a warmer paper base. I usually like Matt papers but I am testing some glassy papers too. So many papers on the market!

Thanks,

David
Logged

MfAlab

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
  • Modern Fine Art printing laboratory
    • HSU fine print
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #78 on: October 20, 2019, 09:31:45 pm »

The reason for this is that as the dot or particle size increases there is more edge relative to area of dot or particle, and it is the edges of the dots/particles that cause the warmth.  Pi D (circumference) increases less than Pi R squared (area) as the dot size increases.

It is good to know something deeper. Could you kindly provide some reference about pigment particle size affect color tone.

stay hungry, stay foolish - Kevin Kelly
Logged
Kang-Wei Hsu
digital printing research & color management
https://www.facebook.com/HSUfineprint

deanwork

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Making digital prints look like film prints
« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2019, 11:15:55 pm »


I have primarily used four papers for several years, Rag Photographique and Edition Etching for matte with pigment whiteners, Platine semi-gloss also 100% cotton with pigment whiteners and is an excellent paper for black and white and color and Moab Entrada for slightly warmer smooth matt natural no oba when making warmer bw prints.


Iíve used all these others but settled on these for general work. Best sharpness, best longevity and best durable coatings on the Canson. By the way the Epson Legacy Fiber is Rag Photographique, and Legacy Platine is Canson Platine. Iíve used these papers for over 10 years and see no difference in quality or consistency.

John



Hey Dean - what Canson paper are you referring to? I have two sample packs I'd like to try. They contain 6 samples:

Rag Photographique 210gsm
Platine Fibre Rag 310gsm
Baryta Photographique 310gsm
Photo Satin Premium RC 270gsm
Photo Hig Gloss Premium RC 315gsm
Arches Aquarelle 240gsm

Ideally I prefer a warmer paper base. I usually like Matt papers but I am testing some glassy papers too. So many papers on the market!

Thanks,

David
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up