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Author Topic: Bolton  (Read 483 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Bolton
« on: September 11, 2019, 05:26:20 pm »

I find the firing of Bolton to be one of the best decisions taken by Trump since the beginning of his presidency.

No irony here.

I hope he continues and fires next the advisors who had pushed him to hire Bolton in the first place. They can’t be too far from the influencers who want a war with Iran...
 
Cheers,
Bernard

Rob C

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 05:30:40 pm »

I find the firing of Bolton to be one of the best decisions taken by Trump since the beginning of his presidency.

No irony here.

I hope he continues and fires next the advisors who had pushed him to hire Bolton in the first place. They can’t be too far from the influencers who want a war with Iran...
 
Cheers,
Bernard

Was a time I thought leaders were the ones with the ideas... kinda by definition?

Chris Kern

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 06:22:33 pm »

I find the firing of Bolton to be one of the best decisions taken by Trump since the beginning of his presidency.

No irony here.

Dexter Filkins published what I thought was a rather perceptive piece on John Bolton in The New Yorker this week.  For those of you who are blocked by the magazine's paywall, here's an excerpt:

Quote
Bolton is not, as he is often accused of being, a neoconservative. He couldn’t care less about spreading democracy around the globe. He is a cold-eyed realist—he believes in preserving and extending American power. He doesn’t have any use for the United Nations, the European Union, or anyone else who is given to lecturing the United States. Of the U.N.-headquarters building in Manhattan, he once said that if it “lost ten stories it wouldn’t make a bit of difference.”

You may not like Bolton’s world view; many of his enemies in Washington certainly despise it. But at least he has a world view: the U.S. contends for its own interests, amid a complex web of contingent alliances. Trump seems to see the global arena as a kind of supersized real-estate market, where bluster prevails, even the worst people are persuadable, and, if your adversary isn’t giving you what you want, you walk away. It’s a simpleton’s view of the world, but in this case the simpleton has a five-hundred-ship Navy and sixteen hundred nuclear warheads at his disposal. Someone has to contain him.

Bolton, it seems to me, was a bizarre choice to serve as national security advisor in a Trump Administration.  Bolton is an interventionist, Trump an isolationist.  Trump, where international policy is concerned, seems more closely aligned with the left wing of the Democratic Party than the right wing of the Republican Party, where Bolton resides.  How did Bolton wind up as Trump's foreign policy advisor?   Partly, I suspect, because nobody else with credentials that were acceptable to mainstream Republicans was willing to take the job.  Partly, as Bolton himself has hinted, because Trump liked what he heard Bolton saying on the Fox cable news network without fully understanding it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 07:59:57 pm by Chris Kern »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 09:15:32 pm »

Bolton, it seems to me, was a bizarre choice to serve as national security advisor in a Trump Administration.  Bolton is an interventionist, Trump an isolationist.  Trump, where international policy is concerned, seems more closely aligned with the left wing of the Democratic Party than the right wing of the Republican Party, where Bolton resides.  How did Bolton wind up as Trump's foreign policy advisor?   Partly, I suspect, because nobody else with credentials that were acceptable to mainstream Republicans was willing to take the job.  Partly, as Bolton himself has hinted, because Trump liked what he heard Bolton saying on the Fox cable news network without fully understanding it.

Things just don't occur by chance at this level of power... I am sorry but it would be very naive to think it does.

The lobbies that would be benefiting from a war with Iran, starting by the defense lobby and the right wing Israelis, have without the shadow of a doubt, been focusing a huge amount of energy on making this happen. And there is zero doubt to my eyes that Bolton got where he was thanks to them. And it probably took a careful design of Bolton's Fox intervention and the guarantee that Trump would see that... as well as many other actions I am sure.

Trump being as transparent as he is is easy target to manipulate for people with the resolve and the means. That's the main reason why he is a huge liability for the US.

But Trump isn't stupid and it appears that he was able to detect the trick this time around. Good for him and for the peace in the world.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2019, 10:58:04 pm »

I think it as simpler than that.  National Advisor Bolton and Secretary of State Pompeo were at constant odds with each other over policy.  One or the other had to go.  Since Pompeo is a better fit with Trump's personality and ideology, Bolton had to go. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2019, 11:08:22 pm »

Also, Trump couldn't stand that mustache.  He's very fastidious with things like that.  When they ordered out for McDonald's quarter pounders, Bolton probably left ketchup all over it.  Trump probably got tired telling him to wipe his face before CNN cable people came in with their TV cameras. :)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2019, 08:39:34 am »

The turnover of staff in this administration is mind-boggling.
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Robert

degrub

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2019, 10:53:45 am »

it is the only constant ;D :(
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2019, 11:12:00 am »

The turnover of staff in this administration is mind-boggling.
What's your point?  If you don;t perform the way Trump needs you too, he fires you.  If you can't stand working for a boss like that, don;t take the job.  In any case, Bolton had to go because he was in conflict with Pompeo who had a better relation with Trump and was more in tune with his philosophy. 

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2019, 11:20:46 am »

What's your point?  If you don;t perform the way Trump needs you too, he fires you.

That's not the point. The point is why does Trump choose these people (who are not exactly strangers) only to find out (a little) later that they dare to contradict him. And that's the main issue, Trump cannot stand being contradicted. He is very insecure, and needs constant confirmation that he is right.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2019, 11:21:50 am »

What's your point?...

The point, Alan, is that it is true and not flattering. If you fire someone for "fundamental differences," haven't you noticed those when hiring him? After all, it isn't a 20-year marriage, where people could grow apart over time, but barely 20 weeks. It is not that Bolton was an unknown at the time of hiring either. Anyone who has followed American politics, however cursory, noticed long time ago what an aggressive hawk he is.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 11:40:30 am by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2019, 11:39:06 am »

I don't fundamentally disagree. That's why I would never work for him. As a contractor working for Real Estate owners in New York City, I got burned by people like Trump. I learned my lesson. I would never go to work for a guy like Trump. But people want Power. People want to be close to a president. It makes them feel important. So they say yes to people like Trump. So part of the problem is the people who become his employees.They should have known better.  Their ego got the best of them.   

kers

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2019, 04:20:37 pm »

I don't fundamentally disagree. That's why I would never work for him. As a contractor working for Real Estate owners in New York City, I got burned by people like Trump. I learned my lesson. I would never go to work for a guy like Trump....
Your description of Trump makes him an ideal president; the problem is - who is not working for him...
All voters are.
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Pieter Kers
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bolton
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2019, 04:25:00 pm »

Your description of Trump makes him an ideal president; the problem is - who is not working for him...
All voters are.
What do you mean that all voters work for Trump?  My wife would disagree.  :)
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