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Author Topic: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here  (Read 1737 times)

msongs

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canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« on: August 30, 2019, 05:01:43 pm »

my canon 8300 finally blew a circuit and not worth fixing so looking to downsize to 24" printer. any thoughts on canon 2000 vs epson 9900 (seems like this is the equivalent epson model. I use mostly roll canvas and cut sheet enhanced matte types.

Msongs
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Msongs
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BrianWJH

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Re: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 05:23:21 pm »

The Epson 24 inch if you're looking at second hand used printers are the 7900 or 7890, the 9900 is the previous 44 inch model.

The latest Epson 24 inch model is the P7000, link here.

Brian.
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2019, 10:23:57 pm »

looking to downsize to 24" printer. any thoughts on canon 2000 vs epson 9900 (seems like this is the equivalent epson model

The current top-line 24" photo printers are the Canon Pro-2000 and the Epson P7000. Epson also currently makes the P6000, which is a 24" photo printer just below the P7000. The Pro-2000 and P7000 both have 10 colors of ink; the P6000 has 8 colors of ink, omitting the P7000's green and orange. The Canon has chroma optimizer; neither Epson has gloss optimizer. The Epson's UltraChrome HD inks test out as considerably more archival than the Canon's Lucia Pro inks.

For reviews
Here, Canon Pro-2000: https://luminous-landscape.com/canon-pro-2000-review-and-related-items-of-interest/
Northlight Images, Canon Pro-2000: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-imageprograf-pro-2000-printer-review/
Northlight Images, Epson P7000: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-surecolor-p7000-printer-review/
Here, Epson P5000, which is a 17" printer generally similar (but not otherwise identical) to the P7000: https://luminous-landscape.com/epson-sc-p5000-printer-review/
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msongs

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Re: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 11:39:36 pm »

thanks for the tips. fewers inks is more eonomical. don't need gloss optimizer as I only print on matte.   will the epson p 6000 still make great color photos and art reproductions?
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Msongs
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NAwlins_Contrarian

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Re: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2019, 11:48:09 pm »

fewers inks is more eonomical.

I would not count on that, except maybe where the eliminated inks were 'light' versions--so that the ink laid down becomes a lesser amount of a darker ink with more white space--which is not the case between the P7000 and the P6000.

will the epson p 6000 still make great color photos and art reproductions?

"Great" is subjective, very much a matter of your own personal standards. How much difference there is between P7000 prints and P6000 prints probably depends on the colors in the image printed. That said, the P6000 has the same inks as the P800. If the P800 can make great color photos and art reproductions, then so can the P6000. And lots of serious photographers love their P800s.
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I.T. Supplies

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Re: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2019, 05:54:56 pm »

If you will mainly print on matte, the Canon's won't touch the optimizer anyway since it's made just for media with a sheen.

I'd say this as I keep hearing (or seeing) details from those like Northlight Images and the Mark's that also test printers/media.  These are just "their" reviews and you can take it how you'd like.  I'm not going to say that they are completely wrong or right, but the outcome can surely be different based on the users location (humidity, lighting, etc).

Both brands have great quality and are very comparable to each other.  We have a color specialist that has done extensive tests between Epson, Canon and HP and there are goods and bads in each.  It really depends on what you're printing how how much you print in a day/week/month to say which model will work for you the best.  Also, what type of media you mainly use (or if it's a mix of media).

The P6000 and P7000 may have a few different colors, but that doesn't technically mean anything in having more or less ink being laid down.  The printers are made properly to lay down the appropriate amount of ink based on the media type and ICC profile (if chosen properly), and photo/fine art printers are linearized to apply the ink correctly unlike latex/solvent or dye-sub that needs to be adjusted properly before printing the file.  Having 2 less colors in the P6000 just means that you may not get as much detail if the profile is able to access those colors easily on the media as where the main colors are able to do it just as well upfront.  If you want to get the extra gamut and have it show better (portraits or landscapes, etc), the profile must be made to read that extra gamut to be able to apply the colors, otherwise you're just wasting the extra colors in cleanings.

Photo and art reproductions will come out really good and very comparable between both brands.  Epson's may show a little better on skin tones where Canon may be better on the blues.  Again, this is a printed review on our end after making custom profiles for the same paper on both printers and using the proper settings.

There's a good chance you may not notice a big difference between the P6 and P7000 if the profile isn't able to read the extra gamut.  Even the Canon's may have the same ability and they have a few different colors (Red and Blue).  Again, if you have a profile that is made to read the extra gamut for the media, you will see the colors on the media; and with proper settings before printing.

Are you looking for any specific features in the printer or just quality?  And as far as the archival details, these are moreless based on being put into storage for best longevity.  Canon's Lucia inkset was tested for about the same timeframe as Epson's x890/900 series.  So you can't see those ratings and think it will last that long in general since light hitting the print can surely lower the longevity based on how much the light/sun hits the print (inks).
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Mick Sang

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Re: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2019, 09:20:00 pm »

Quote
Photo and art reproductions will come out really good and very comparable between both brands.  Epson's may show a little better on skin tones where Canon may be better on the blues.  Again, this is a printed review on our end after making custom profiles for the same paper on both printers and using the proper settings.

Recently, we tested Canon's Pro2000 (24") vs Epson 7000. The Canon profile was terrible and would have ended the tests right there. But, at that point, we generated custom profiles for the papers used with both machines. The prints on gloss and matte papers were in much closer colour agreement with the blues slightly better for the Canon and oranges and greens better for the Epson. But on gloss stocks, bronzing from the Canon, despite gloss optimizer,  was a deal breaker. Epson was clean.

Mick
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deanwork

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Re: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2019, 07:22:39 pm »


Apparently, according to Scott Martin’s review, which I trust because as a consultant he deals with these issues every day professionally,  the correct media setting is critical on the new Canons to achieve the best gloss differential and bronzing reductions on fiber gloss media. It also seems true that Canon was not very clear in the beginning about describing that situation of choosing the best media settings for various papers.

It is also true according to both Aardenburg and Wilhelms tests under daylight fluorescents, the new Lucia Pro  has gone backwards fairly significantly in color stability, while Epsons new yellow has put it where the previous Canon Lucia inks were in that regard. Hp still beats them both fairly significantly for color longevity.

Those are two issues to conside. For many the fact that thermal heads in the Canons and HPs can be be used infrequently while maintaining clean nozzles without wasting a lot of ink and time before a print session is a major consideration. With my Epsons if I turn them on once a week and run color charts through them I keep pretty clean nozzles. If I don’t I end up regretting it and waste a lot of ink.

John


https://www.on-sight.com/canon-ipf-pro-4000-review/



Recently, we tested Canon's Pro2000 (24") vs Epson 7000. The Canon profile was terrible and would have ended the tests right there. But, at that point, we generated custom profiles for the papers used with both machines. The prints on gloss and matte papers were in much closer colour agreement with the blues slightly better for the Canon and oranges and greens better for the Epson. But on gloss stocks, bronzing from the Canon, despite gloss optimizer,  was a deal breaker. Epson was clean.

Mick
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Mick Sang

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Re: canon 2000 vs epson 9900? needing a 24 inch printer here
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 11:17:56 pm »

Quote
Apparently, according to Scott Martin’s review, which I trust because as a consultant he deals with these issues every day professionally,  the correct media setting is critical on the new Canons to achieve the best gloss differential and bronzing reductions on fiber gloss media. It also seems true that Canon was not very clear in the beginning about describing that situation of choosing the best media settings for various papers

In my previous post, I wanted to be brief in terms of our basic findings with respect to the Canon printers (iPF2000 and 4000). Now, I see that I should have included more detail.

To provide a bit of background, my commercial printing company has been in business in Toronto for 35 years. As a long time photographer, I have been primarily focussed on the fine art inkjet printing end for the past 15 or so of those years. That started with an Iris inkjet and moved eventually to Epson. We currently own five large and medium format Epson printers. But, we decided to look seriously at the Canon Pros before our next printer purchase because we are tired of similar frustrations as those which have been widely published here and on other forums with respect to the nature of Epson printers. In truth though, in general, our machines have operated well overall and they have been treated very well.

We approached Canon with enthusiasm, since many aspects of their printers are impressive and apparently superior to the Epson machines. That said, the longevity testing of the Lucia Pro inks which showed poorer results from the previous set and much poorer by comparison to the Epson inks was a big concern. Nevertheless, we would be willing to tolerate that with the one machine provided that everything else in terms of image quality was at least as good as that which we currently achieve from our Epsons. Our primary concerns are the overall quality, accuracy and longevity our prints.

So, Canon took us through their new, impressive office building in Brampton and we met their printer experts in the demo room. We asked them to print a set of test files for us. We would print the same test files at our studios on similar papers. The test files consisted of a set of Roman-16 images in 16 bit ECI RGB, 24 Bill Atkinson's Balls in 16 bit ProPhoto RGB and an in-house test file created by us in 16 bit Adobe RGB. Print resolution was set to 300 ppi for the Canon tests and 360 ppi for the Epson tests.

With respect to the gloss optimizer and any finicky aspects of its handling and treatment, that was entirely in the hands of the Canon print experts themselves. They printed their files and we printed ours. Also, we told them up front of our particular concerns with respect to bronzing, gloss differential and colour fidelity and accuracy. So, all of our concerns were spelled out up front.

When we received the first test prints, the results were NOT good at all. In fact they were BAD. The cyan was not even close. Reds were weak, greens were dull, magentas were off, yellows were weak etc. on both the test sets - one on gloss and one on matte stocks. As I mentioned in my first post on this topic, if we had to rely upon that test, the Canons were out and that was that. But, we persisted because we know how easily errors are made and we needed to understand if these bad prints were due to the equipment or some other anomaly. I contacted their print expert who told me that they had used "canned profiles" for their Canon papers. As I sad, we really wanted the Canon products to work out. So, if there was a chance this thing could work, we wanted to know and the help it happen, if possible. So, we offered to generate custom profiles for all the papers used in the tests. They happily agreed.

We had them print charts for our Isis-2 and Barbieri spectros consisting of 5207 patches with an abundance of neutrals. These were read and optimized and ICC profiles returned to Canon.

The next set of test prints came in much better than we had anticipated. We couldn't believe they would run tests using such deficient profiles. Nevertheless, the new prints were stunning and in much closer agreement with our Epsons. On gloss papers the gloss optimizer really adds huge optical impact to the resulting prints even though the d-max was almost the same as that from the Epson. However, the overall result was not better than the Epson,. The oranges and greens were very slightly weaker and gloss differential and obvious bronzing was a deal breaker.

At the end of the day, the Canon machine was more money, the ink longevity was half or less, the bronzing was obvious and while our Epsons are not perfect we have not encountered the level of frustration that many others have. Hence, we have stuck with Epson in hopes that another contender arrives or Canon soon builds upon the strengths of their new printers.  In our view, Canon and Epson are the only serious inkjet printer manufacturers.

Mick
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