Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Normalize exposure button, wish for  (Read 1777 times)

smuseby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Normalize exposure button, wish for
« on: August 25, 2019, 08:41:34 pm »

When shooting, I spend a lot of time looking at my histogram to be certain I'm not losing any blown-out data. Why can't my camera (D810) do this for me?
This would seem to be an obvious meter setting - an option for the camera to expose so the hottest pixels are at, say 250.
Is there a camera available that does this? If not, is there some reason I should stop hoping for this feature?
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16165
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2019, 08:46:54 pm »

When shooting, I spend a lot of time looking at my histogram to be certain I'm not losing any blown-out data. Why can't my camera (D810) do this for me?
This would seem to be an obvious meter setting - an option for the camera to expose so the hottest pixels are at, say 250.
Is there a camera available that does this? If not, is there some reason I should stop hoping for this feature?
It could, the manufacturers don't think you should have it for some dumb reason. On some cameras (like Canon), there are 3rd party hacks to provide a true, raw Histogram.
The more photographers ask (demand) for this, the more likely it might happen.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

D Fuller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 583
    • AirStream Pictures
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2019, 11:44:36 pm »

When shooting, I spend a lot of time looking at my histogram to be certain I'm not losing any blown-out data. Why can't my camera (D810) do this for me?
This would seem to be an obvious meter setting - an option for the camera to expose so the hottest pixels are at, say 250.
Is there a camera available that does this? If not, is there some reason I should stop hoping for this feature?

The Nikon Z cameras have an exposure mode that does exactly what you’re asking for.
Logged
business website: www.airstream.pictures
blog: thirtynineframes.com/blog

smuseby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 01:04:50 am »

I found this on-line: is this what you are referring to? - Sounds close, but not particularly definitive:

Highlight-weighted metering    The camera assigns the greatest weight to highlights. Use this option to reduce loss of detail in highlights, for example when photographing spotlit performers on-stage.
Logged

nirpat89

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 515
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 10:44:06 am »

When shooting, I spend a lot of time looking at my histogram to be certain I'm not losing any blown-out data. Why can't my camera (D810) do this for me?
This would seem to be an obvious meter setting - an option for the camera to expose so the hottest pixels are at, say 250.
Is there a camera available that does this? If not, is there some reason I should stop hoping for this feature?

I have wondered about this myself as well.  Another wishful question I have is why can't they calculate the DOF based on where the lens is focused and the focal length, both of which should be known by the camera with modern lenses (I would suppose) - kind of like software version of what used to be available in the form of markers on the old prime lenses.

I think if the camera manufacturers open up their operating systems for third party apps like iOs or Android, some of these things can be solved by more imaginative folks.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16165
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 11:14:16 am »

The Nikon Z cameras have an exposure mode that does exactly what you’re asking for.

I found this on-line: is this what you are referring to? - Sounds close, but not particularly definitive:
Highlight-weighted metering    The camera assigns the greatest weight to highlights. Use this option to reduce loss of detail in highlights, for example when photographing spotlit performers on-stage.


The mode takes raw or JPEG into account?
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16728
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2019, 01:32:55 pm »

Canon has had for years a highlight-preservation mode. What it does, it actually underexposes deliberately.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16165
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 01:39:17 pm »

Canon has had for years a highlight-preservation mode. What it does, it actually underexposes deliberately.
What an utterly massive "hurt me" button for a raw shooter. 🤮
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

nirpat89

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 515
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2019, 01:59:06 pm »

These modes are based on how the exposure is calculated from a matrix of readings.  The standard is averaging all points equally.  The highlight-weighted mode would give, as the name suggests, greater weightage to the highest readings. It is before the picture is shot so no jpeg-raw at that point.  This is akin to using exposure compensation -1/3, -1/2 etc.  I think if one uses the center-weighted mode by pointing in the area of highlights in the scene, a similar outcome can be achieved. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 02:16:32 pm by nirpat89 »
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16165
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 02:04:52 pm »

These modes are based on how the exposure is calculated from a matrix of readings.  The standard is averaging all point equally.  The highlight-weighted mode would give, as the name suggests, greater weightage to the highest readings. It is before the picture is shot so no jpeg-raw at that point.  This is akin to using exposure compensation -1/3, -1/2 etc.  I think if one uses the center-weighted mode by pointing in the area of highlights in the scene, a similar outcome can be achieved.
I don't understand the effect on raw vs. JPEG. If I were to shot two captures with this setting, what's the net result to the raw and the JPEG? IOW, does the camera adjust exposure when set to raw capture, for that capture or does it expose as if the user were producing a JPEG?
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

Jim Kasson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2347
    • The Last Word
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 02:16:16 pm »

Another wishful question I have is why can't they calculate the DOF based on where the lens is focused and the focal length, both of which should be known by the camera with modern lenses (I would suppose) - kind of like software version of what used to be available in the form of markers on the old prime lenses.

The GFX 100 does this, and you can pick between two CoCs. The in-focus band is indicated by blue shading in the focus distance scale in the EVD and LCD.

Jim

nirpat89

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 515
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2019, 02:23:16 pm »

The GFX 100 does this, and you can pick between two CoCs. The in-focus band is indicated by blue shading in the focus distance scale in the EVD and LCD.

Jim

I would love that....(but in my lowly Nikon... :)))
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 02:32:28 pm by nirpat89 »
Logged

nirpat89

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 515
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 02:29:53 pm »

I don't understand the effect on raw vs. JPEG. If I were to shot two captures with this setting, what's the net result to the raw and the JPEG? IOW, does the camera adjust exposure when set to raw capture, for that capture or does it expose as if the user were producing a JPEG?

Nothiing to do with the data format at all. Simply in the metering of the scene.  It will give you the same set of shutter speed / aperture/ iso whether or not the camera is in jpeg or raw mode.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16165
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2019, 02:32:17 pm »

Nothiing to do with the data format at all. Simply in the metering of the scene.  It will give you the same set of shutter speed / aperture/ iso whether or not the camera is in jpeg or raw mode.
Metering based on what? You don't expose for a JPEG as you do a raw, so I'm still at a loss to see what this does to help the OP who wants feedback based on the data; a raw Histogram.
I can set Exposure Compensation. But if I set it for say, plus 1.5 stops, there is going to be a big difference in the results of a JPEG vs. a raw.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

D Fuller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 583
    • AirStream Pictures
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2019, 09:31:35 pm »

Metering based on what? You don't expose for a JPEG as you do a raw, so I'm still at a loss to see what this does to help the OP who wants feedback based on the data; a raw Histogram.
I can set Exposure Compensation. But if I set it for say, plus 1.5 stops, there is going to be a big difference in the results of a JPEG vs. a raw.

Based on this definition, I’d say the Nikon feature is calibrated assuming that you are shooting a jpeg.

The problem with the feature is that it has to make a cutoff decision about how hilight weighted the metering is. If I’m shooting a car with specular hilights in the chrome, I don’t want them controlling the exposure, I want the hilights on the paint controlling it. Or if I’m shooting a play from the stage, the highlight weighting is a large part of the image, where if I am shooting from the balcony, it makes up a much smaller portion of the image. It does not take all that perfectly into account. So like all exposure modes, you have to use it intelligently, and with practice. It’s not a magic bullet.

Logged
business website: www.airstream.pictures
blog: thirtynineframes.com/blog

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16165
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2019, 09:50:24 pm »

This Nikon feature doesn’t seem to be at all useful. The OP needs a raw histogram.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

D Fuller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 583
    • AirStream Pictures
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2019, 03:15:09 pm »

This Nikon feature doesn’t seem to be at all useful. The OP needs a raw histogram.

I find histograms useful, but even a raw histogram won't tell you which pixels are clipping. If I'm worrying about burnt pixels, i find blinkies more useful, but what i'd reallly love to see in a still camera is false color, similar to what Red has available in its digital cnema cameras. That map of where every part of the image is falling on the exposure scale is the most useful exposure tool I've ever used.
Logged
business website: www.airstream.pictures
blog: thirtynineframes.com/blog

rdonson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3162
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2019, 03:16:51 pm »

When shooting, I spend a lot of time looking at my histogram to be certain I'm not losing any blown-out data. Why can't my camera (D810) do this for me?
This would seem to be an obvious meter setting - an option for the camera to expose so the hottest pixels are at, say 250.
Is there a camera available that does this? If not, is there some reason I should stop hoping for this feature?

If this really concerns you consider taking 3 shots at -2,0,+2 EV and creating an HDR image.  It’s pretty simple with your camera and PS, Lr, etc software.
Logged
Regards,
Ron

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16165
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2019, 03:18:21 pm »

I find histograms useful, but even a raw histogram won't tell you which pixels are clipping.
It tells you if you've over exposed and clipped the raw data. Raw blinkies, fine. But the OP specially stated:
When shooting, I spend a lot of time looking at my histogram to be certain I'm not losing any blown-out data. Why can't my camera (D810) do this for me?
And a raw Histogram will do so.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16165
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Normalize exposure button, wish for
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2019, 03:19:06 pm »

If this really concerns you consider taking 3 shots at -2,0,+2 EV and creating an HDR image.  It’s pretty simple with your camera and PS, Lr, etc software.
Yeah, but that kind of sucks shooting portraits, action, etc. Better to simply understand how to expose optionally for a single capture.
Logged
Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up