How media over-represents 15 times climatosceptiks fake science

[jeremyrh]

When did you live there?  Apparently, there was a point when they were very Socialist.  But the economy began to fail and they had to reverse it.  So they implemented free market policies. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-sweden-overcame-socialism-11547078767

Those things are relative. By your standards Sweden is still a communist dictatorship.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...  But a more serious question is this. What is it that is actually happening in the real world that is leading to these wild-eyed warnings about how we might become Venezuela soon. I mean, what the hell are you talking about?

This is what we are talking about, Robert, in your neck of the woods even: brave anti-fascists fighting dangerous nazis, street by street, corner by corner:

"AntiFa in Canada shouting down an elderly lady calling her a Nazi as she tries to cross the street"

Video here: https://www.facebook.com/LEXITMovement/videos/389882785267010/UzpfSTc2NjU5NzIyMjoxMDE1ODEwMDMwMzc5MjIyMw/

[Alan Klein]

Those things are relative. By your standards Sweden is still a communist dictatorship.

Who cares.  Their women are hot.

[Robert Roaldi]

This is what we are talking about, Robert, in your neck of the woods even: brave anti-fascists fighting dangerous nazis, street by street, corner by corner:

"AntiFa in Canada shouting down an elderly lady calling her a Nazi as she tries to cross the street"

Video here: https://www.facebook.com/LEXITMovement/videos/389882785267010/UzpfSTc2NjU5NzIyMjoxMDE1ODEwMDMwMzc5MjIyMw/

You're right, the end is nigh.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Bwahahahaha... so much for science:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2217915-avoiding-red-or-processed-meat-doesnt-seem-to-give-health-benefits/

[degrub]

go ahead.
Make my day.
 

[Alan Klein]

Bwahahahaha... so much for science:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2217915-avoiding-red-or-processed-meat-doesnt-seem-to-give-health-benefits/

My cardiologist doesn;t care how much red meat I eat.  Just don;t eat carbs he says.  On the other hand I had triple bypass and have diabetes 2.  The whole things is mixed up.  Who knows what to believe any more. 

[LesPalenik]

My cardiologist doesn;t care how much red meat I eat.  Just don;t eat carbs he says.  On the other hand I had triple bypass and have diabetes 2.  The whole things is mixed up.  Who knows what to believe any more.

Unfortunately, most cardiologists are hopelessly incompetent. I've seen some.
The surgeons are usually top class, but majority of cardiologists are clueless about the nutritional aspects and exercise benefits. They just keep prescribing the same betablockers, statins, and baby aspirins.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/in-depth/statin-side-effects/art-20046013

Below is a short list of world famous cardiologists who started as conventional doctors but seeing the results of conventional treatments (promoted by old school and drug making companies) they switched to the preventive heart treatments with great results and many saved patient lives. Google any of them, they have videos, articles, books, talk shows, and they don't sell any supplements or magic pills, they just prescribe healthy food and exercise.

Caldwell Esselstyn, Colin Campbell, John McDougal, Dean Ornish, Barnard, Neil Barnard, Joel Fuhrman, Kim Williams. These were the pioneers recommending plant-based food, now there are many others following in their footsteps.

Definitely, listen to this: (24 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNW_5EqqWoo (53% increased mortality by going on ketogenic diet)

If you have 2 hours, here is an interesting and insightful discussion with cardiologist Joel Kahn on Diet Wars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrCaG2gT2Vg

As to the diabetes, the latest research indicates that it is not caused so much by sugar, as by the excess calories. Mentioned also in the video above, 44:30'

[Alan Klein]

Les, we've talked about this before.  It's hard to know what to believe.  Every day there's another article about eating healthy that contradicts the last article.  The subject of this thread.  You become skeptical of everything.  Who's telling the truth. 

Yes, my cardiologist prescribes atorvastatin, baby aspirin and a beta blocker Metoprolol as you suggested.  It's his standard kit.  He's got my wife on it now as she's having a skipped beat or something, still trying to figure it out.  The carbs are a killer though for me because I have diabetes II, an apparent American disease lately from all the sugar, sweets, soda, French fries and other high card crap we eat.  I see how sugar levels drop when I exercise.  If I could lay off the carbs and moderate meat and everything else, and exercise, I'd probably be OK.

[LesPalenik]

Alan, yes, we talked about it many times, but you still don't listen. And you can always find some dummy or a worse a con man, sponsored by red-meat or diary industry who will let you eat or even encourage to consume poisons which you like.

Listen to the video in my previous post. It's really enlightening and to the point.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... And you can always find some dummy or a worse a con man, sponsored by red-meat or diary industry who will let you eat or even encourage to consume poisons which you like...

My doctor friend says that Cochrane are respected research analysts in medical community.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, yes, we talked about it many times, but you still don't listen. And you can always find some dummy or a worse a con man, sponsored by red-meat or diary industry who will let you eat or even encourage to consume poisons which you like.

Listen to the video in my previous post. It's really enlightening and to the point.

Listen to whom?  It's hard to go against your cardiologist who treated you for three years, discovered clogged arteries I didn't know were seriously clogged and got me one of the best heart surgeons in the best heart hospital in NYC to do a triple bypass successfully (at least so far.) What do I tell him?  "Say, Doc.  I was talking to this Canadian on a photo forum site.  He says you're full of sh!t that the problem is carbs and not steak." 

Do you see my predicament? 

[Alan Klein]

More skepticism listening to the media.

Journal 'Nature' retracts ocean-warming study.
https://phys.org/news/2019-09-journal-nature-retracts-ocean-warming.html

[LesPalenik]

Listen to whom?  It's hard to go against your cardiologist who treated you for three years, discovered clogged arteries I didn't know were seriously clogged and got me one of the best heart surgeons in the best heart hospital in NYC to do a triple bypass successfully (at least so far.) What do I tell him?  "Say, Doc.  I was talking to this Canadian on a photo forum site.  He says you're full of sh!t that the problem is carbs and not steak." 

Do you see my predicament?

I don't see any predicament. He is obviously better at finding a good hospital than preventing a heart problem in the first place. You can tell him, that somebody on an-online forum said that a cardiologist who doesn't first try to improve your health by inquiring what you eat and give you a proven and scientific advice about benefits of proper nutrition and exercise, should go back to school and stop harming his patients. I don't tell that to my cardiologist, we worked out a good relationship over the years. We exchange few pleasantries, he mentions some medications, I politely decline them, then I ask for some tests and he always writes a lab requisition to get them done. Once when his test machine indicated a possible irregularity or a missing heart beat, he wanted me to take an appropriate medication. I was skeptical, so I asked for a Holter heart monitor, and after 2 days of constant on-body monitoring (you can't shower nor bath), the monitor didn't show any problems. If I had blindly accepted the prescribed medication, I would have been poisoning myself with those pills for the rest of my life (which would be invariably shorter with that medication than without it).
 
Once while sitting in the waiting room, I met a trim 40-something fireman, who suffered a heart attack while running a marathon, so I asked him how he liked the doctor. He said he liked him a lot, because he prescribed for him 6 different medications. A perfect and very grateful patient.

Nowadays, most middle-aged people on Western diet have clogged arteries - it depends only to what degree. Unfortunately, it's not only old people, even people in their teens and twenties are experiencing plaque in their arteries.  If you suspect any problems, the cardiologist can order angiogram or nuclear heart scan and find out exactly how bad it is.

The researchers had information on 3,832 service members who'd been killed at an average age of 26. Close to 9 percent had any buildup in their coronary arteries, according to the autopsies. And about a quarter of the soldiers with buildup in their arteries had severe blockage.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-military-heart/one-in-12-in-military-has-clogged-heart-arteries-idUSBRE8BO07G20121225

Most people don’t experience the life-threatening complications of having atherosclerosis — hardening of the arteries — until they reach middle age. However, the beginning stages can actually start during childhood. The disease tends to be progressive and gets worse with time. Over time, plaque, which is made of fatty cells (cholesterol), calcium, and other waste products, builds up in a major artery. The artery becomes more and more narrow, which means blood is unable to get to areas it needs to reach.

https://www.healthline.com/health/heart-disease/atherosclerosis-when-it-starts

While we are talking about firemen, I should mention Rip Esselstyn, son of Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn. An ex-fireman, accomplished triathlete, strong and healthy guy, advocating plant-based diet, he convinced his entire fire-station team to switch to plant-based food.

Rip Esselstyn (born 1963), a former firefighter and triathlete, is an American health activist and food writer. He is the author of The Engine 2 Diet (2009), "Plant-Strong" (2016) previously published as My Beef With Meat (2013), and "The Engine 2 Seven-Day Rescue Diet" (2017).  Esselstyn is known as an advocate of a whole food, plant-based diet, one that omits meat, fish, eggs, dairy and processed foods. He calls it a "plant strong" diet, a term he has trademarked. He appeared in the 2011 documentary about plant-based nutrition, Forks Over Knives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_Esselstyn   

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

https://www.facebook.com/thehodgetwins/videos/2104503403189410/

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

More skepticism listening to the media.

Journal 'Nature' retracts ocean-warming study.
https://phys.org/news/2019-09-journal-nature-retracts-ocean-warming.html

Why skepticism ?

Isn't this a fine example of peer review, which aims at correcting errors that may have been made, and prevent future work to be built on those errors?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Isn't this a fine example of peer review...

Isn't peer review supposed to happen before the publishing and before the poor St. Greta had a meltdown?

[faberryman]

Isn't peer review supposed to happen before the publishing and before the poor St. Greta had a meltdown?

Nature isn't a peer reviewed journal.  It is a monthly magazine.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Nature isn't a peer reviewed journal.  It is a monthly magazine.

Nobody seemed to care about that distinction while shrieking "OMG the oceans are warming!"

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Isn't peer review supposed to happen before the publishing and before the poor St. Greta had a meltdown?

No. The Journal "Nature" publishes original papers.
The journal's editorial staff may decide to have some of the papers peer reviewed.

Editorial criteria and processes
https://www.nature.com/nature/for-authors/editorial-criteria-and-processes

After submission
What happens to a submitted Article?

The first stage for a newly submitted Article is that the editorial staff consider whether to send it for peer-review. On submission, the manuscript is assigned to an editor covering the subject area, who seeks informal advice from scientific advisors and editorial colleagues, and who makes this initial decision. The criteria for a paper to be sent for peer-review are that the results seem novel, arresting (illuminating, unexpected or surprising), and that the work described has both immediate and far-reaching implications. The initial judgement is not a reflection on the technical validity of the work described, or on its importance to people in the same field.