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Author Topic: Ryzen 3rd Gen  (Read 9684 times)

aaronchan

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2019, 01:34:24 pm »

I will go for the Ryzen 3900X or 3950X with the X570 Motherboard.
All the test results on the internet shows the Ryzen has much more processing power when it comes to productivity.
I see no reason to go with the Intel unless you do heavy gaming and aimming for Frame/Sec for First Person Shooting game.

DP

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2019, 08:53:41 am »

We were talking about designing quiet systems, so having less heat produced (due to the higher efficiency) will help in achieving this goal.

my system is quiet... and as I am not running a 1 liter case in the middle of Sahara in a 10 sq ft room w/o airconditioning ... high end air cooler with can deal with with up to 250w w/o much noise in a regular home ...

If your workload can use all cores for hours, you might as well use a 12 cores Ryzen at base frequency with 105 W, which will still outperform a current Intel 8 core system that outputs 200 W.  ;)

nope - my workload  a single raw at at time work using either ACR or C1 and then minor finishing PS and Ryzen efficiency (or more cores) brings nothing because all heavy lifting is done by a single thread on CPU + GPU  ;D ... plus tests you possibly saw, don't use overclocking and once you do  ;D ...  as I noted - I have no noise (I do notice noise from GPU in real workloads, not from CPU cooling) or heat issues with my computer case, my cooling, and ambient temperature in the room where I work

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armand

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2019, 11:29:48 am »

I seems there are finally AMD motherboards supporting TB3, this one does it with a add-in card but otherwise looks good (outside of price): https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813145174?Description=TRX40&cm_re=TRX40-_-13-145-174-_-Product

Hopefully there will me more mainstream motherboards with similar specs showing up over the next half year.

kers

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2019, 08:11:17 pm »

I would definitely choose a PCI 4.0 board, and a CPU that can handle a lot of PCI lanes needed for M2 memory and the GPU.
AMD ryzen seems a fast choice (AMD Ryzen 9 3900X) cheap and very fast for LR. It can handle only 24 PCI lanes, so you have to calculate if that is enough.


« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 08:15:18 pm by kers »
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nemophoto

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2019, 01:13:00 pm »

I'm definitely consider the CPU upgrade to the 3900 or 3950. I found out my older Asrock MB can handle the chips with a BIOS upgrade. I've been using a Ryzen 1800x since it was first introduced (2 years??). While running on a MB with the x370 chipset might hobble things a little, by comparison my system should scream. I find no matter what I do, Lightroom is a slug, so I'm looking at both the CPU and maybe replace my GTX1080, though it's still a good GPU.

While Thunderbolt would be nice, it's a non-issue really. My Dell XPS15 2-in-1 has it, but unless I get a TB-centric external drive, it's no faster than the USB 3 Gen 2 ports.
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JaapD

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2019, 03:02:18 am »

With respect to “Lightroom is a slug” you’ll probably get no improvements after a CPU upgrade (at more or less equal clock speeds). And your GTX1080 is already more than fast enough.

The sluggishness must be caused by something else (apart from the crappy coding of Lightroom itself – poor multi processor support, poor GPU processing). Still applying mechanical HDDs with platters? Storage over the LAN? In that case you may expect significant improvements after transferring to local SSDs.

Regards,
Jaap.

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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2019, 05:03:01 am »

Agreed Jaap.  I have a PC (Windows 10) with a 7200 speed HD and now have a MacBook Air.  The Air was got for portability and fast boot and, dare I say it, I like the screen. I know this is not in the league of these builds, but I now have a couple of Sandisk 2TB portable ssds. They come formatted for both PC and Mac, and with the adapters.  With a hard shell that holds the SSD and adapters each weighs 115g (4oz) and is small.  47GB of images went from an ssd to the mac's ssd in less than 2 minutes, magic for me!  I bought them from Amazon when there were offers.

Of course it all depends on need.  I am not dealing with big video files nor with 16bit TIFFs from a GFX100.  My RAWs are about 50M.

Best wishes,

Jonathan
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nemophoto

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2019, 12:01:10 pm »

The sluggishness must be caused by something else (apart from the crappy coding of Lightroom itself – poor multi processor support, poor GPU processing). Still applying mechanical HDDs with platters? Storage over the LAN? In that case you may expect significant improvements after transferring to local SSDs.


I use two SSDs -- one is my boot/C: drive, the other is my scratch disk for Photoshop and Lightroom. I do have a mechanical drive (a WD Black) on which my programs are stored, but once LR is loaded (I have 32GB RAM), it should be running off RAM plus the scratch disk. Of course, who knows how they really have these things programmed. A faster CPU does help with performance, even LR and Photoshop. Some of my issues may be due to driving two monitors -- an HD and a 4K -- with "only" 8GB on the GTX1080. (I have some other issues that have cropped up with my 4K, but that's a post for another time.)
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kers

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2019, 02:42:56 pm »

...I find no matter what I do, Lightroom is a slug, so I'm looking at both the CPU and maybe replace my GTX1080, though it's still a good GPU.
On my computer i use a GPU half as fast as the GTX1080 and it works fast with LR.
I have a very fast CPU 10core intel i9 that runs on 4.5hz... and very fast m.2 memory - so it must be that   ( 32gig ram- but that will not be the problem)
LR uses the CPU tot the max.
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nemophoto

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2019, 06:05:14 pm »

That's why I'm considering a "brain swap" in putting in the new 3900x.
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JaapD

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2019, 02:04:00 am »

I understand you considering a brain swap. I do hope however not to put your expectations too high here. First look at the CPU performance during Lightroom, I don't think it's hitting 100% for a considerable amount of time. If performance is low then the CPU is waiting for other processes or peripherals. Here a faster CPU would not solve anything. As with your GTX1080, this one should fly, also with 2 monitors attached and 8Gb video memory.

I suspect Lightroom doing something on your mechanical drive. I sometimes see weird things going on with Photoshop (I don’t use Lightroom), building up a scratch file while there is still more than sufficient unused RAM available, communicating to the HDD in 4K datablocks, etc. Please be aware that HDD performance significantly drops, becoming terribly slow, when dealing with 4K data blocks.

As long as you haven’t found the root cause of Lightroom’s sluggishness I’d be a bit careful spending money and efforts on exchanging parts that supposed to be already fast in the first place. As for now my suspicion goes into the direction of the mechanical drive.

Regards,
Jaap

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Joe Towner

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2019, 11:08:43 am »

I use two SSDs -- one is my boot/C: drive, the other is my scratch disk for Photoshop and Lightroom. I do have a mechanical drive (a WD Black) on which my programs are stored, but once LR is loaded (I have 32GB RAM), it should be running off RAM plus the scratch disk. Of course, who knows how they really have these things programmed. A faster CPU does help with performance, even LR and Photoshop. Some of my issues may be due to driving two monitors -- an HD and a 4K -- with "only" 8GB on the GTX1080. (I have some other issues that have cropped up with my 4K, but that's a post for another time.)

Where is the Lightroom Catalog?  It should be on one of the SSD disks, since that's where most the disk I/O happens (between the catalog, preview & smart preview files). The referenced files can be in spinning rust without issue, but he catalog really has to be on something faster. NVMe > SATA SSD > SATA SSHD > SATA HDD

The way you think of everything being loaded into RAM is actually not correct.  Have you uninstalled it from the current location & installed it to the OS SSD?

Have you run task manager and kept an eye on the performance tab while using Lightroom? If you're not working the CPU hard as shown there, doing a brain upgrade isn't going to give you a huge jump.

-Joe
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FabienP

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2019, 05:36:06 pm »

Having just assembled a new PC with a Ryzen 3900x processor, I can say that Lightroom flies compared to my previous build (7 years old Xeon E3-1245 V2).

The interesting thing is that I haven't changed the GPU (NVIDIA GTX 780) and the HDD hosting the RAW files. The improved behaviour is probably related with the increased single thread CPU performance and with the move of the catalogue from a SATA SSD to a NVMe SSD.

So add one more data point to what Joe said above: Lightroom seems to be I/O bound for the catalogue and the CPU will probably help in the develop module. Since my GPU is limited to DirectX 11, it only works in basic mode and doesn't assist much with the processing.

To come back to Nemophoto's point, a "brain swap" between a Ryzen 1800x and 3900x would at most bring a 30% improvement to single thread CPU performance. Not bad but that alone might not solve the performance problems.

Cheers,

Fabien
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armand

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2020, 11:24:05 pm »

Despite my initial intent to have TB3 with my next update, the significantly better results the Ryzen has is forcing my hand.
I'm probably 80% decided on what to get, see here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/87BZzN

I have the rest of the components, including a decent case and a video card (RTX 2060). If the video card doesn't get along I'll change it to a Radeon 2700 XT.
For storage I'll likely keep my collection of SATA SSDs in a storage pool (currently @ 5.4TB effective and occupied @ 67%) instead of going all in with NVME SSDs because I would need them to be larger than 2TB and currently there is only one option, Sabrent Rocket 4TB (I would get 2), with some interesting performance choices.
Where I'm not decided is the CPU; initially I was set on the 3900x and it is the rational choice when you think of money/performance compared to the 3950x but the latter would make the system more future proof. I doesn't make sense to get the 3900x now and upgrade later to the 3950x so I will stick with the decision. If there will be any CPU upgrade it will be for the next gen Ryzen, if the motherboard will still support it of course.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks

JaapD

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2020, 04:11:58 am »

In my opinion a 3900x (12 core @ 3.8GHz) is a better choice than a 3950x (16 core @ 3.5GHz). For now, and also in the long term. And a 3900x is even significantly less expensive.

Investments for the future are always tricky. In a few years’ time there will be much faster CPU’s, sweeping the current generation off its feet.

Keep in mind though that CPUs are in many cases not the limiting factor as they are waiting for peripherals to finish their tasks. Think of a relatively slow CPU performing its task with a 50% load versus a fast one at a 25% CPU load (so doing nothing for 75% of the time).

Regards,
Jaap.


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Joe Towner

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2020, 11:24:56 am »

3800x $340 / 3900x $470 / 3950x $750
I've got the 3800x and it is keeping up with my tasks. If anything I'd look at the matchup in RAM capacity v speed. 

Remember the Ryzen4 will drop in 10 months. The idea of doing a huge upgrade and running it for years is kind of old school.  It's better to do incremental upgrades on a rotating cycle.  Figure you'll replace at least half of the system in 2-3 years.
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armand

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2020, 11:45:10 am »

Based on this: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/What-is-the-Best-CPU-for-Photography-2019-1620/  for photo the 3950x doesn’t add more than 5% performance for 50% increase in price. Interestingly for video, particularly Adobe, the Intel 9900K holds its own. I don’t do much video (mostly because it’s too time consuming) but it’s good to know you don’t lose everything going Intel route.

I’ve been building my systems for a while but truth being told, while I occasionally do small incremental updates, if you wait several generations between updates you end up changing most of the system. That’s why buying a prebuilt system (desktop or laptop) and just replacing it every 4-6 years makes sense for many; having your storage solution separate helps also.

MattBurt

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2020, 12:36:29 pm »

I like the looks of those CPUs but I usually build my systems on the cheap. I just built a new AMD box for myself that started with a ASUS Ryzen 2700 since they got down to $150. So I built a nice "gaming" system around that with a ASUS ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING mobo,  32 GB DDR4 3200 MHz RAM, a 2TB M.2 PCI SSD, and a MSI Radeon RX 580 video card. It's a nice upgrade from my previous i7 system that was getting pretty old.

My goal with this build was not only to have a new system but also to get on the same platform of that new Ryzen 9 chip for when that gets cheaper.

It will be a nice upgrade in a couple/few years to double the ram and pop a new CPU in.
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armand

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2020, 06:01:49 pm »

I like the looks of those CPUs but I usually build my systems on the cheap. I just built a new AMD box for myself that started with a ASUS Ryzen 2700 since they got down to $150. So I built a nice "gaming" system around that with a ASUS ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING mobo,  32 GB DDR4 3200 MHz RAM, a 2TB M.2 PCI SSD, and a MSI Radeon RX 580 video card. It's a nice upgrade from my previous i7 system that was getting pretty old.

My goal with this build was not only to have a new system but also to get on the same platform of that new Ryzen 9 chip for when that gets cheaper.

It will be a nice upgrade in a couple/few years to double the ram and pop a new CPU in.

I was contemplating a new MacBook Pro 16 so this is actually quite a lot cheaper.
I ran the Puget benchmark for Photoshop and I am roughly at 557 (out of their 1000 for a 9900K test station), see attached. I couldn't get the Lightroom benchmark to run but somebody with a slightly better processor (4790k vs 4790) got an overall score of 553. So on average I can expect a much faster computer.
As a side note the Ryzen test results that I've seen there aren't that much faster, a least not on everything they test.

kers

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2020, 09:22:25 pm »

I was not aware of this benchmark- so i also ran it.
Must say somethings may differ: History state, percentage of RAM used etc...
Also it only runs on an English Photoshop ( you can alter it) and with psd saving set to compressed. ( otherwise the file will exceed 2GB and will not be saved- script stops)
Anyway my system does 853. I like the benchmark ; it works for windows and Apple because it is a java written script and seems very comprehensive. (it takes about 25 minutes to run 3 times)
PS i do not have an iMac-pro but a hackintosh with a 10 core i9 7900x running at 4.5 GHZ
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 09:31:21 pm by kers »
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