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Author Topic: Ryzen 3rd Gen  (Read 934 times)

alatreille

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Ryzen 3rd Gen
« on: August 10, 2019, 09:46:23 pm »

Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone is considering the new Ryxen processors for a new build?

Seems like an amazing all round set and the 3900x or 3950 are on my short list at the moment.

I'm wondering if C1 might benefit from thw multi core/threads of these cpus.

Let mw know your thoughts.

Cheers.

A
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armand

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2019, 09:01:26 am »

Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone is considering the new Ryxen processors for a new build?

Seems like an amazing all round set and the 3900x or 3950 are on my short list at the moment.

I'm wondering if C1 might benefit from thw multi core/threads of these cpus.

Let mw know your thoughts.

Cheers.

A

I would but I convinced myself that I want thunderbolt for my next computer, be it built by myself or bought as is, so I think AMD is a no show here.

Joe Towner

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2019, 12:04:13 pm »

I would but I convinced myself that I want thunderbolt for my next computer, be it built by myself or bought as is, so I think AMD is a no show here.
What are you looking to get from TB3?  The advantage of a desktop is standard PCIe slots, and with USB-C (3.2) external speeds are still nice. 

I'm looking at doing a video workstation build - stitching video (Insta360 Pro2) sucks with my laptop. 
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alatreille

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2019, 01:33:07 pm »

I would but I convinced myself that I want thunderbolt for my next computer, be it built by myself or bought as is, so I think AMD is a no show here.

Some of the X570 mbs have thunderbolt don't they?
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armand

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 04:00:57 pm »

What are you looking to get from TB3?  The advantage of a desktop is standard PCIe slots, and with USB-C (3.2) external speeds are still nice. 

I'm looking at doing a video workstation build - stitching video (Insta360 Pro2) sucks with my laptop.

Yes, but I want my storage separated from my computer, partially for easier upgrades down the road and partially for size of storage. With enough drives I should get at least as much speed as from my SATA drives (even as they are SSD only) but I don't think USB will cut it. I know I can add drives in the desktop and I did, but I feel it would be easier to separate the upgrades. Another reason is that I want my computer to be silent; if I want a lot of cheaper storage I would need to go back to regular HDD, thinking of 6 to 8. Putting them in a box that I can move farther away from me would decrease the noise.
I would also need to upgrade my NAS in the next year or so, therefore I contemplated using a NAS with dual 10GB, or with the newer 40GB or 100GB but it looks a little too complicated for my level, particularly if I need to troubleshoot it. I could try a NAS with both TB3 and 10GB for best of both worlds but I would like to see some real world testing.

Some of the X570 mbs have thunderbolt don't they?

I didn't check but I know on the native Intel side there is a paucity of motherboards that can reliably provide TB3. So far the Gigabyte Z390 Designare is the best candidate that offers built-in TB3, without additional cards. On the built-in side is a Dell XPS Special edition with the add-in card, or the latest iMAC 27 if you want Mac.
Searching now it seems that only ASRock has a few that will need an add-in card.

Joe Towner

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 10:21:53 pm »

Yes, but I want my storage separated from my computer, partially for easier upgrades down the road and partially for size of storage. With enough drives I should get at least as much speed as from my SATA drives (even as they are SSD only) but I don't think USB will cut it. I know I can add drives in the desktop and I did, but I feel it would be easier to separate the upgrades. Another reason is that I want my computer to be silent; if I want a lot of cheaper storage I would need to go back to regular HDD, thinking of 6 to 8. Putting them in a box that I can move farther away from me would decrease the noise.
I would also need to upgrade my NAS in the next year or so, therefore I contemplated using a NAS with dual 10GB, or with the newer 40GB or 100GB but it looks a little too complicated for my level, particularly if I need to troubleshoot it. I could try a NAS with both TB3 and 10GB for best of both worlds but I would like to see some real world testing.

I can appreciate the idea of having storage separate from your computing.  I would argue it's better to go with NASes than an external disk array, as they're about the same cost if not cheaper.  QNAP actually does the TB3/10gb NAS, where the TB3 is a network adapter that's connected to a 10gbps switch inside the NAS, but I wouldn't go that route.  The only storage I see needing TB3 is the ThunderBlade or Express 4m2 by OWC - 4x NVMe slots.  My most wanted device right now is a TB3 -> 8-12 M.2 SATA or 2.5" SATA enclosure, but at that size they're going to want to have a RAID function built in :( .

What amount of space are you looking at needing?  Dual 10gb is fine, but what are you plugging it into that'll have the bandwidth to match it?  25/40gb would be a fiber cross connect between the NAS and your workstation.  Solo 10gbps should get you around 1,2000MBps with Jumbo Frames if the NAS can handle it (and they're loaded with SSDs).
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armand

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 11:03:44 pm »

If I don't go the NAS route I was looking at the OWC Thunderbay RAID 6; it doesn't have built in RAID but with a new processor (in my computer) I hope I won't feel it that much. It has room for 6 HDD and 1 NVME SSD. I still get a feel they are optimized for Mac though and I'm not convinced that I will switch.
I currently have around 3.5TB but with the Z7 I wan't to have enough storage for some years, so I would like something in the 16-18TB range at least. My current NAS has 8TB and I'll soon have to delete some of the windows backups.
I knew Synology was supposed to come up with a TB3 NAS but it's missing in action (the DS1817T).

Joe Towner

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 12:40:45 pm »

I would love a ThunderBay 6 designed for 2.5" drives!  Too bad the Synology DS620slim doesn't have dual 2.5/5gbps ports, and a touch more horsepower - it'd make a great 10tb (SHR/F1 RAID5 over 2tb SSD's). Plug in an external 14tb drive over USB3 & backup to it.
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alatreille

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 08:33:28 pm »

Back on topic.

Does anyone else have any insite, thoughts on these new processors?

Thanks.

Andrew
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JaapD

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2019, 02:13:18 am »

These days Id definitely go for an 3rd gen Ryzen. I think the AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, with 12-cores and 24-threads and boost clocks up to 4.6GHz is a high-performance achiever while at about $ 499,- still very cost effective. Also many PCIe lanes, you wont have limitations here on the graphics- and m.2 storage pipelines.

Combine this with a motherboard containing a X570 chipset supporting the latest PCIe 4.0 standard, giving you up to 51% faster SSD performance, along with 69% faster graphics performance (could be more something for the nerds or benchmark measurebators, as end user you may not notice that much from it).

Also something to consider: various security leaks with Intel processors and performance degradation after a fix in software.

On a personal note: I now have a PC containing an Intel i7 processor but my next system will definitely be based on the above mentioned AMD configuration, in combination with an Nvidia RTX 20xx graphics card together with the new 10 bit studio driver (no expensive Quadro required anymore).

Regards,
Jaap.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 02:48:54 pm by JaapD »
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FabienP

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2019, 05:52:47 pm »

Intel is not supposed to have an answer to Ryzen 3000 processors until sometime in the second half of 2020 for desktops and workstations. Now would be the time to give AMD some support so that there will still be competition in the x86 processors space in the future.

I plan to build a new PC later this year with either a Ryzen 3000 or a yet to be announced Threadripper processor of the same generation. This will depend on the price difference for a 16 core processor. I don't need more cores but could use the extra PCIe lanes offered by the latter processor in a few years.

The only thing bothering me with X570 chipsets is their need to be actively cooled with a 4 cm fan. That could be noisy and will likely fail at some point down the line, with no standardised replacement part. There is only one existing motherboard which has a passive heatsink but with a ridiculous price tag and tons of features that are not needed by most people.

Cheers,

Fabien
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stingray

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2019, 07:24:20 am »

I am really interested in the 3rd Gen Ryzen and need to build a new system soon...... but I am scared silly .....

as it looks like heavy duty cooling might be needed and I do not want fans running all the time.

I am confused as to what would be the optimum graphics card to use ... my interest is Photoshop and Lightroom processing... not video editing.
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stingray

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2019, 12:42:42 pm »

Thanks for the link to Puget Systems.  I missed that post.

AMD looks like the way to go until mid 2020 unless Intel change their pricing model.   

I have watched several builds using the 3rd gen Ryzen and also the Intel i9.  These builds all include significant cooling options, with a few indicating performance throttling and needed to upgrade their cooling hardware.  I do not mind putting these into the build, but I hate the thought of fans running beside my desk for the next 5 years or so.
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armand

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2019, 01:43:57 pm »

I'll probably go Intel when I do it. I built my current system with a focus on low noise and I would like to keep it that way.

FabienP

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2019, 04:09:58 pm »

Speaking of thermal dissipation, it should be noted that recent Intel processors rated with a Thermal Design Power (TDP) of 95 W will draw up to 200 W when all cores run at turbo speeds. This is unlike Ryzen processors, which draw only slightly more than their advertised TDP of up to 105 W at turbo speeds. Newer Ryzen processors are more power efficient than their Intel counterparts.

If a quiet setup is the goal, this has to be accounted for. I am not sure that an Intel based system will be the quieter option (unless speaking about laptop processors) because of the need to dissipate more heat.

The active fan on X570 chipsets for Ryzen builds (mentionned in previous posts) now seems to run quieter with recent BIOS updates. Those apparently correct issues where the cooling fan was always running at full speed, independently of the system load.

Cheers,

Fabien
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DP

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FabienP

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 05:42:52 pm »

they are indeed , https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-3000-boost-clock-controversy-intel-attack,40231.html  &  https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-3000-not-hitting-advertised-boost-speeds-survey,40291.html

Boost clocks not being achieved has nothing to do with power efficiency. The potential issue described in the linked articles has already been corrected in an upcoming BIOS update, as stated in this article. More relevant to the theme of power efficiency is the lower idle power consumption also introduced in this update. To quote the article:

Quote
AMD's new reference firmware adds an activity filter that lets the CPU's own boost algorithm ignore "intermittent OS and background application noise" that might otherwise ramp the CPU up into its boost clock. Certain bursty but overall lightweight tasks, such as video playback, application launch, and monitoring utilities, make regular requests for a higher boost rate, even though their overall activity level is low. The activity filter smooths things out for these lightweight tasks, keeping the CPU out of boost mode without harming overall or perceptible performance.

As for the hypothesised premature failure of batches of Ryzen processors mentioned in the linked articles above, we will know for sure in a few years. Intel was badly affected by this problem three times in the past decade (Intel 6 series chipsets, Avoton/Rangeley and Apollo Lake Atom processors) and should be in no position to spread FUD about its competitor on this topic.

Cheers,

Fabien
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DP

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 11:18:19 pm »

Boost clocks not being achieved has nothing to do with power efficiency.
I run i7-9700K @ all 8 cores locked all the time @ 4900 MHz... and yes when I stress all 8 cores at the said freq it is not 95W, but almost double (and more with AVX2)...  but intel goes (I mean running stress test) with aircooling by Noctua NH-D15S for hours with slight noise from the fans ... try to overclock all the cores on Ryzens  ;D - so what is the point that it power efficient if you can't really clock it ? you are not running a datacenter ...
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FabienP

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Re: Ryzen 3rd Gen
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2019, 04:58:05 pm »

I run i7-9700K @ all 8 cores locked all the time @ 4900 MHz... and yes when I stress all 8 cores at the said freq it is not 95W, but almost double (and more with AVX2)...  but intel goes (I mean running stress test) with aircooling by Noctua NH-D15S for hours with slight noise from the fans ... try to overclock all the cores on Ryzens  ;D - so what is the point that it power efficient if you can't really clock it ? you are not running a datacenter ...

We were talking about designing quiet systems, so having less heat produced (due to the higher efficiency) will help in achieving this goal.

If your workload can use all cores for hours, you might as well use a 12 cores Ryzen at base frequency with 105 W, which will still outperform a current Intel 8 core system that outputs 200 W.  ;)

Cheers,

Fabien
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