Fuji X-H1 Bug report

[Jeff Magidson]

Bug summary: X-H1 does not render Adobe RGB jpegs correctly on rear LCD and EVF. Actual files are OK.

Does anyone know of an official channel to let FUJIFILM know of a potential bug? Also, If you have a X-H1, have you noticed the same problem?

Problem: When I have the camera set up to save Jpegs in Adobe RGB the color will look fine on the LCD or EVF in live view but after I take the photo the review image will look somewhat dull in color on the LCD or EVF. To me it looks like a profile mismatch issue. The actual files look normal/as expected when opened up in photoshop, Lightroom or in the Mac Preview application. This problem does not occur when the camera is set to sRGB.

[vartkes]

I shoot X-H1 and at times RAW+JPEG, always in Adobe RGB mode. I found that the image rendered on the LCD (and the EVF) is processed based on the settings of the picture style you have chosen intentionally or otherwise. For example if you have Velvia selected you will see the extra saturation and narrower dynamic range compared to say, Eterna or Provia Std. So I found that using Eterna and adjusting the Highlight and Shadow Tone settings both to -2 will deliver a close match to the RAW files shadow & highlight details.

If you are shooting other film simulations and check the colour and exposure with the playback on your LCD, then consider experimenting with the playback display parameters, Menu> Setup > Screen Setup where you will find three <LCD COLOR> adjustment parameters. Experiment with these and try to match up what is on the LCD with what you see on your color monitor. BTW I am assuming that you calibrate your monitor. It is no use trying this with a monitor that is not calibrated.

[kirkt]

I have indeed noticed this.  The resulting image reviewed on the LCD or in the EVF, when the JPEG color space is set to AdobeRGB, looks like the shadows have been lifted compared to the Live View image.  When you set the JPEG color space to sRGB, the resulting image, displayed in the EVF and on the LCD, looks like the Live View image.  It seems as if the AdobeRGB numbers in the saved JPEG file are being interpreted as sRGB numbers (similar to opening an AdobeRGB file in Photoshop and ASSIGNING the sRGB color profile to it - shadows get lifted, colors desaturate) whereas the Live View image is always sRGB.

It is annoying so, because I shoot for raw files (even though I shoot raw+JPEG for storage), I leave the JPEG color space set to sRGB to avoid the annoyance when reviewing images on the EVF or LCD for focus, etc.

Kirk

[Jeff Magidson]

I shoot X-H1 and at times RAW+JPEG, always in Adobe RGB mode. I found that the image rendered on the LCD (and the EVF) is processed based on the settings of the picture style you have chosen intentionally or otherwise. For example if you have Velvia selected you will see the extra saturation and narrower dynamic range compared to say, Eterna or Provia Std. So I found that using Eterna and adjusting the Highlight and Shadow Tone settings both to -2 will deliver a close match to the RAW files shadow & highlight details.

If you are shooting other film simulations and check the colour and exposure with the playback on your LCD, then consider experimenting with the playback display parameters, Menu> Setup > Screen Setup where you will find three <LCD COLOR> adjustment parameters. Experiment with these and try to match up what is on the LCD with what you see on your color monitor. BTW I am assuming that you calibrate your monitor. It is no use trying this with a monitor that is not calibrated.

Perhaps I was not clear in my description of the problem/bug. Regardless of the picture style settings the Live View image does not match the Review image viewed on the EVF or LCD when the camera is set to Jpegs saved in ADOBE RGB. The Review image appears abnormally lower in contrast and less saturated. The actual produced file is fine. This does not happen with my Fuji X-E2, only with my X-H1.

The problem is similar to taking a Jpeg that is tagged/produced in ADOBE RGB, opened up in photoshop and viewed in sRGB color space. The image will look flat and low in saturation. A classic sign of profile mismatch. I think that is what may be happening internally in the X-H1 when ADOBE RGB files are Reviewed on the LCD/EVF.

[Dan Wells]

This is fairly universal, not just the X-H1. All cameras that I know of have either sRGB or even sub-sRGB screens (both viewfinder and rear screen). When you're looking at the feed composing the image, it's fine, since the viewfinder feed is sent in the colorspace the screens can handle (I'm not sure if it's sRGB or a camera colorspace, but, whatever it is, it's small). When you're reviewing an Adobe RGB image on the rear screen, it's sent in Adobe RGB, which the screen can't handle. It's exactly the same as displaying an Adobe RGB image on a normal (non-Adobe RGB) monitor with neither the operating system nor the application being color management aware.

You can't reproduce the effect on a Mac easily, because MacOS is internally color-managed and has been for a long time. It displays all images using the monitor profile. If your monitor is from Apple, even if you've never color-managed it, it has a manufacturer default profile (and most Macs have built-in screens). If your monitor is non-Apple, there are some other default profiles (not sure if they're built in to the OS, or if it downloads them) - and I assume it picks sRGB if nothing else applies. If you've calibrated your monitor, it (of course) uses the calibrated profile.

Newer Windows more or less acts like a Mac - every output device, including monitors, has a profile, and the OS converts images so they look right on the monitor. Old Windows acted like your camera - if you displayed an Adobe RGB image on a non-Adobe RGB monitor, it didn't look right.

The solution to this, and it isn't perfect, is to always set camera colorspaces to sRGB and shoot raw + jpeg. Raw images don't have a profile, so you'll still have the full raw data (raw converters work in very large color spaces, then you pick the export space, which can be sRGB, Adobe and sometimes others). Since the jpeg is sRGB, it looks righ on the rear screen (and on phones, if you use the iOS or Android app). The reason this may not be ideal is if you're trying to heavily edit the jpeg or print the jpeg on a wide-gamut printer. Most of the time, you want the jpeg to be in sRGB, anyway - it's set up for immediate sharing. If you want to do something more than that with the image, at least I am always working with the raw file...

[rdonson]

I may be dense but why would you shoot JPGs in aRGB instead of sRGB?  A JPG is only 8 bit, right?

[Jeff Magidson]

This is fairly universal, not just the X-H1. All cameras that I know of have either sRGB or even sub-sRGB screens (both viewfinder and rear screen). When you're looking at the feed composing the image, it's fine, since the viewfinder feed is sent in the colorspace the screens can handle (I'm not sure if it's sRGB or a camera colorspace, but, whatever it is, it's small). When you're reviewing an Adobe RGB image on the rear screen, it's sent in Adobe RGB, which the screen can't handle. It's exactly the same as displaying an Adobe RGB image on a normal (non-Adobe RGB) monitor with neither the operating system nor the application being color management aware.

You can't reproduce the effect on a Mac easily, because MacOS is internally color-managed and has been for a long time. It displays all images using the monitor profile. If your monitor is from Apple, even if you've never color-managed it, it has a manufacturer default profile (and most Macs have built-in screens). If your monitor is non-Apple, there are some other default profiles (not sure if they're built in to the OS, or if it downloads them) - and I assume it picks sRGB if nothing else applies. If you've calibrated your monitor, it (of course) uses the calibrated profile.

Newer Windows more or less acts like a Mac - every output device, including monitors, has a profile, and the OS converts images so they look right on the monitor. Old Windows acted like your camera - if you displayed an Adobe RGB image on a non-Adobe RGB monitor, it didn't look right.

The solution to this, and it isn't perfect, is to always set camera colorspaces to sRGB and shoot raw + jpeg. Raw images don't have a profile, so you'll still have the full raw data (raw converters work in very large color spaces, then you pick the export space, which can be sRGB, Adobe and sometimes others). Since the jpeg is sRGB, it looks righ on the rear screen (and on phones, if you use the iOS or Android app). The reason this may not be ideal is if you're trying to heavily edit the jpeg or print the jpeg on a wide-gamut printer. Most of the time, you want the jpeg to be in sRGB, anyway - it's set up for immediate sharing. If you want to do something more than that with the image, at least I am always working with the raw file...

This is a good thesis but it's not what's going on here. I also own a Fuji XE-2 and do not have this problem with that camera. It's not that out of gamut colors are clipping on the LCD or EVF, that is to be expected. All colors and values are less saturated and lower in contrast when comparing Live View to image Review when ADOBE RGB is selected. I'm pretty sure the X-H1 is displaying all Review files regardless of whether they where shot in sRGB or aRGB as if they where sRGB. That is the problem.

[Dan Wells]

That's exactly what it's doing (displaying aRGB files as if they were sRGB) - I'm surprised the X-E2 did anything different - clipped aRGB is superior to sRGB in most cases with an aRGB file - but I didn't think cameras were smart enough to simulate aRGB. I always set my jpegs to sRGB to avoid the problem...