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Author Topic: Man of Letters  (Read 4030 times)

KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2019, 09:43:48 am »

It is likely nothing to do with you. SMS text messaging is a “best effort” approach with no required guarantee or verification of successful delivery. Many are lost between cell carriers. The “success” message that you get likely only means that the text reached your cell phone carrier’s system.

If you have a “smart” phone with a “data plan” you can likely use a chat type app instead that can be used over cell or over wifi for free (if no data plan).

I've a smart wife with a smart phone who uses WhatsApp, works brilliantly and is free.

RSL

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2019, 10:38:38 am »

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here Russ. For most people, mistakes are a vital part of learning. That includes other people's mistakes. If an image does not fit the genre, the more knowledgeable people have an opportunity to point out the differences. This than becomes a valuable learning resource: people can find all sorts of images (good and bad), plus an explanation of why it works or not.

The problem as I see it currently, is that the differences aren't pointed out adequately, and discussions end up in bickering "is too, is not, etc...", which subsequently leads to ad hominum remarks of "who made you the gatekeeper" etc...

It's important to note that the failure of a student, as they say, is the teacher's mistake. That includes breaking down the mistakes into comprehendible chunks, and it also includes providing motivation to actually study the masters if one thinks that will help.

Hi Oscar, You may be surprised to learn that I agree with you, at least about making mistakes. As I pointed out in “On Street Photography,” if you’re going to learn to do it you need to shoot and shoot and shoot. It’s important to shoot stuff you know isn’t going to be good, just for the practice in composition and camera function.

In that article I said: “How do you capture a good street photograph? If you look carefully at the street photographs of masters like Cartier-Bresson, Elliott Erwitt, or Robert Frank, you soon realize that the best of them are snapshots, gut reactions to what they saw before them, but not planned intersections with the scene.”

The most important thing you need to learn about street it what the function of good street is. It isn’t to show some guy eating lunch. The function of street is to show something important about that guy eating lunch. What are his thoughts? If he’s with someone, how does he relate to that other person? How does he relate to his surroundings? A certain amount of ambiguity helps. Does he really care much about that other person? It ain’t easy to do anything like that, but if you don’t succeed you don’t really have a street shot. What you have is a picture of some guy eating lunch. Which is why I said, in that article: “. . .you’ll shoot bags and bags of bloopers, a smaller number of not too bad shots, and the rare picture you should be willing to show. Beyond that, there’s the kind of picture upon which you’d be willing to hang your reputation. If you can average one of those a year you’re getting pretty good.”

But I don’t agree that looking at the bloopers posted by others helps you learn about street photography, or any photography. In the first place, you need to be familiar with a genre to be able to identify a blooper. In the second place, if you’re hoping to learn something about a genre by looking at photographs on LuLa, bloopers will lead you astray. Bottom line, I think it’s stupid for LuLa to try to identify genres. LuLa simply isn’t the right place for that, so I’d like to see both “showcases” disappear.

Oh, and finally, for Keith: Having done it for three years in various parts of Eastern and Southeast Asia, I can tell you that trying to do good street in a foreign environment is almost impossible. You get interesting pictures of the local environment, but the kind of relationship between people and between people and their environment that makes for good street mostly is beyond you because you’re not a native and don’t really understand those relationships in this environment. You still can get lucky, but that’s what it is: luck. Well. . . come to think of it, as HCB said, “It’s all luck. You just have to be receptive. That’s all.”
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KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2019, 10:55:05 am »

Hi Oscar, You may be surprised to learn that I agree with you, at least about making mistakes. As I pointed out in “On Street Photography,” if you’re going to learn to do it you need to shoot and shoot and shoot. It’s important to shoot stuff you know isn’t going to be good, just for the practice in composition and camera function.

In that article I said: “How do you capture a good street photograph? If you look carefully at the street photographs of masters like Cartier-Bresson, Elliott Erwitt, or Robert Frank, you soon realize that the best of them are snapshots, gut reactions to what they saw before them, but not planned intersections with the scene.”

The most important thing you need to learn about street it what the function of good street is. It isn’t to show some guy eating lunch. The function of street is to show something important about that guy eating lunch. What are his thoughts? If he’s with someone, how does he relate to that other person? How does he relate to his surroundings? A certain amount of ambiguity helps. Does he really care much about that other person? It ain’t easy to do anything like that, but if you don’t succeed you don’t really have a street shot. What you have is a picture of some guy eating lunch. Which is why I said, in that article: “. . .you’ll shoot bags and bags of bloopers, a smaller number of not too bad shots, and the rare picture you should be willing to show. Beyond that, there’s the kind of picture upon which you’d be willing to hang your reputation. If you can average one of those a year you’re getting pretty good.”

But I don’t agree that looking at the bloopers posted by others helps you learn about street photography, or any photography. In the first place, you need to be familiar with a genre to be able to identify a blooper. In the second place, if you’re hoping to learn something about a genre by looking at photographs on LuLa, bloopers will lead you astray. Bottom line, I think it’s stupid for LuLa to try to identify genres. LuLa simply isn’t the right place for that, so I’d like to see both “showcases” disappear.

Oh, and finally, for Keith: Having done it for three years in various parts of Eastern and Southeast Asia, I can tell you that trying to do good street in a foreign environment is almost impossible. You get interesting pictures of the local environment, but the kind of relationship between people and between people and their environment that makes for good street mostly is beyond you because you’re not a native and don’t really understand those relationships in this environment. You still can get lucky, but that’s what it is: luck. Well. . . come to think of it, as HCB said, “It’s all luck. You just have to be receptive. That’s all.”

Russ, I have no interest in the genre, or for that matter genre in general.

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2019, 02:22:46 pm »

Fair enough, Keith. But then why are you posting in Street Showcase instead of User Critiques?
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KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2019, 03:41:09 pm »

Fair enough, Keith. But then why are you posting in Street Showcase instead of User Critiques?

I'm not looking for critique.

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2019, 04:01:25 pm »

Then why not post in Landscape Showcase? If Street Showcase didn't exist, which it didn't not long ago, where would you have posted? You must think your stuff is at least close to street.
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Ivo_B

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2019, 04:35:39 pm »


.....

Neither do I hold with the sometimes fashion for knocking Ivo's street work; I think he actually does have a style very much his own, and as I think I mentioned before, both he and you, Oscar, do appear to share a sort of exotic eye for things that most of us would miss. Not always obvious, but it holds through the body of work.

Thanks Rob. I value your appreciation, thanks.  :)
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2019, 05:19:20 pm »

I'm not looking for critique.
Another place to post which is just for that purpose (even though it is inside the User Critiques area) is the "Without Prejudice 3" thread.
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KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2019, 07:08:29 pm »

Another place to post which is just for that purpose (even though it is inside the User Critiques area) is the "Without Prejudice 3" thread.

Eric, thanks. I've posted there in the past, I'll try to remember to post there in future.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 07:14:27 pm by KLaban »
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KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2019, 07:17:07 pm »

Then why not post in Landscape Showcase? If Street Showcase didn't exist, which it didn't not long ago, where would you have posted? You must think your stuff is at least close to street.

Close to or on the street, miles apart from yours.

RSL

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2019, 07:44:41 pm »

Close to or on the street, miles apart from yours.

Whatever that means. . .?
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2019, 10:08:18 pm »

I've often been tempted to post some of my road tar images in the Street Showcase thread, but maybe I need to start a Real Road Showcase first. But then I guess I'd have to post a lengthy essay defining the genre...    ;D
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32BT

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2019, 02:04:20 am »

I've often been tempted to post some of my road tar images in the Street Showcase thread, but maybe I need to start a Real Road Showcase first. But then I guess I'd have to post a lengthy essay defining the genre...    ;D

What's the difference between "real street" and "true street"?  :-\
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KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2019, 03:33:29 am »

I've often been tempted to post some of my road tar images in the Street Showcase thread, but maybe I need to start a Real Road Showcase first. But then I guess I'd have to post a lengthy essay defining the genre...    ;D

In future when I upload images to the Street Showcase I will mark them as NSFW NSFR.

;-)

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2019, 06:34:51 am »

What's the difference between "real street" and "true street"?  :-\
That concept is fully explained in the classic Zen couplet:

Student: "What's difference between a duck?"
Master:   "One of it's feet are both the same."

 8)
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Rob C

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2019, 08:44:59 am »

That concept is fully explained in the classic Zen couplet:

Student: "What's difference between a duck?"
Master:   "One of it's feet are both the same."

 8)

I must investigate this; appeals strongly to my sense of reality.

Rob

petermfiore

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2019, 09:02:02 am »

How about   "A Touch of the Absurd". Could make for another opportunity to digress.

Peter

RSL

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2019, 09:15:56 am »

Great idea, Peter. All we have to do is change the title from "Street Showcase" to "A Touch of the Absurd." Nothing else needs to change.
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32BT

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2019, 09:22:51 am »

How about   "A Touch of the Absurd". Could make for another opportunity to digress.

Peter

Rob could definitely use a touch. A female touch to be exact, which, if you think about it carefully, could also be considered a touch of the absurd, but I digress. On the other hand, Rob is already in touch with his feminine side, and unfortunately for him he still remains a lousy cook. Now that's politically correct, because it proofs that there is no causal basis for suggesting any meaningful relation between gender and stove.

And yes, Rob, you're wife was a great cook. We know. No need to repeat. I mean no disrespect by that either, it in fact just shows we do actually listen... sometimes.
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32BT

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2019, 09:28:46 am »

Great idea, Peter. All we have to do is change the title from "Street Showcase" to "A Touch of the Absurd." Nothing else needs to change.

pfff, including the participants? Hahaha, well, at least I would have a significant increase in images to share...
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