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Author Topic: Man of Letters  (Read 4028 times)

Ivo_B

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2019, 03:02:08 pm »

Or how about several subsections:

Real Street
I think it's Real Street
Fake Street
I don't Care if It's Real Street

Ivo's Vision of 'Real Street'
All of the Above

You can compress it.
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Ivo_B

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2019, 03:09:34 pm »

How about getting rid of Street Showcase? That would end this kind of crap. If you're going to put stuff into genres you're going to end up with arguments about the definitions of the genres.

Everybody know what "landscape" is? How about this? Landscape? Well maybe it's street. A street may be nearby. There are enough categories on LuLa without Landscape Showcase and Street Showcase. The other categories have to do with action and criticism. You don't need to understand a genre in order to post properly in those lists. To post properly in a genre list you have first to study the masters of the genre in order to understand what it's all about. Too much work. Ain't gonna happen. We've demonstrated that sufficiently. Let's knock it off.

The only demonstration on going is the one about the souplesse of an Abrams tank suspension.
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Ivo_B

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2019, 03:13:00 pm »

This is the very reason why serious art exhibitions and prestigious art shows are curated...an open forum such as this is often less than ______.
(fill in the blank with an appropriate adjective)

Peter

Yes, so imagine all these very fine classical real street photo’s, as often called by Russ, here on Lula, are only less than ________

Yep, I think you nailed it.
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RSL

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2019, 03:14:25 pm »

Of course. "Landscape" is wider than high, and "portrait" is higher than wide. The other classic shapes are square, round, and oval.   :D

I'm all in favor of genre-free threads. The potential value to some viewers of "Landscape" or "Street" Showcases is that it makes it easy to avoid genres they don't care for. But for me that is a non-issue, as I like to check on all posted images of any sort, even ones that I do very little of, such as "Street" (because it is very difficult to do well.) I do find that I respond more positively to those that fit the "classic" definition that Russ has described so well so often.

But I find quite boring the repeated queries about "Is this (pick a genre)?" I like to read comments that might make an image more expressive, and ones that assert no changes are desirable. I also skip all the political and quasi-scientific discussions, preferring the threads with actual photographs (plus, of course, the Humor thread.)

YMMV.

Exactly, Eric. The other problem is that when you have an open category with a genre name, people who haven't a clue drop all sorts of crap into the category and confuse anyone trying to learn about the genre.
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Rob C

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2019, 03:21:57 pm »

I'm still awaiting Rob's essay on the subject of categorisation.

;-)


I never wanted to offend you in the first place; I shall pass before I make things worse!

:-)

KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2019, 05:04:05 pm »

Phew!

:-)

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2019, 05:55:27 pm »

Exactly, Eric. The other problem is that when you have an open category with a genre name, people who haven't a clue drop all sorts of crap into the category and confuse anyone trying to learn about the genre.
As has been demonstrated amply here on LuLa.
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RSL

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2019, 07:46:52 pm »

Again and again.
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Ivo_B

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2019, 03:39:56 am »

As has been demonstrated amply here on LuLa.

The only thing what’s demonstrated, again and again, is the blindness for work that goes beyond limitations of a so called genre.

‘Street Photography’ as explained here is like Latin. Once it was the language of a civilization, now it is dead and only good for obsolete academic use and other museum purposes.

 :)
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KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2019, 04:57:49 am »

Exactly, Eric. The other problem is that when you have an open category with a genre name, people who haven't a clue drop all sorts of crap into the category and confuse anyone trying to learn about the genre.

Russ, possibly, but there's already plenty of crap posted under the guise of Real Street by those who profess to having an authoritative voice on the subject.

Perhaps we all need to lighten up, the Street Showcase is after all only a heading, not in any way a definition of a genre.

Rob C

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2019, 05:48:22 am »

There is also the problem that though one may understand genres perfectly well, that does not of itself make any of us good at them from a production perspective; we might make better curators or gallerists. We'd most certainly make more money from photography that way!

;-(

32BT

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2019, 05:50:16 am »

Exactly, Eric. The other problem is that when you have an open category with a genre name, people who haven't a clue drop all sorts of crap into the category and confuse anyone trying to learn about the genre.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here Russ. For most people, mistakes are a vital part of learning. That includes other people's mistakes. If an image does not fit the genre, the more knowledgeable people have an opportunity to point out the differences. This than becomes a valuable learning resource: people can find all sorts of images (good and bad), plus an explanation of why it works or not.

The problem as I see it currently, is that the differences aren't pointed out adequately, and discussions end up in bickering "is too, is not, etc...", which subsequently leads to ad hominum remarks of "who made you the gatekeeper" etc...

It's important to note that the failure of a student, as they say, is the teacher's mistake. That includes breaking down the mistakes into comprehendible chunks, and it also includes providing motivation to actually study the masters if one thinks that will help.

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Regards,
~ O ~
If you can stomach it: pictures

32BT

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2019, 05:51:50 am »

There is also the problem that though one may understand genres perfectly well, that does not of itself make any of us good at them from a production perspective; we might make better curators or gallerists. We'd most certainly make more money from photography that way!

;-(

Or become a teacher. Those who can, do; those who can't...
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Regards,
~ O ~
If you can stomach it: pictures

petermfiore

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2019, 06:09:43 am »

Or become a teacher. Those who can, do; those who can't...

Those who can, do; those who can't, teach; and those who can't teach, teach gym!

Peter

RSL

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2019, 06:14:46 am »

...he Street Showcase is after all only a heading, not in any way a definition of a genre.

Sorry, Keith, I know you'd rather it not be true, but street photography is the name of a genre. The name is unfortunate, but there it is.
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Rob C

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2019, 06:15:27 am »

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here Russ. For most people, mistakes are a vital part of learning. That includes other people's mistakes. If an image does not fit the genre, the more knowledgeable people have an opportunity to point out the differences. This than becomes a valuable learning resource: people can find all sorts of images (good and bad), plus an explanation of why it works or not.

The problem as I see it currently, is that the differences aren't pointed out adequately, and discussions end up in bickering "is too, is not, etc...", which subsequently leads to ad hominum remarks of "who made you the gatekeeper" etc...

It's important to note that the failure of a student, as they say, is the teacher's mistake. That includes breaking down the mistakes into comprehendible chunks, and it also includes providing motivation to actually study the masters if one thinks that will help.


I don't buy into that, not just because my daughter is a teacher, but because I know from personal experience that some things in life are easy for me to assimilate but others, never, however often somebody explains them. It might be a problem with learning or trying to learn particular things too late in life: put into that category the inner working of cellphones, iPads and computers. And books don't help because they don't approach problems properly (for me); I would like to see step 1, step 2. step 3, etc. etc. but nope, it's generalised instructions that don't face specific glitches.

[For instance: when my daughter arrived at Palma Airport a few days ago, she sent me a series of texts (as per usual on her trips to see me) advising when the transfer coach had left the airport and progress en route to our place, so I could meet her at the drop-off point. In all, five messages, each of which I answered, and my cellphone told me they had been received. Not one did get through to her. Later, we sat down and tried it again: her texts got through to me, but not mine to her. Why? You see the problems I face with tech? Hers is an iPhone, mine a Samsung.]

Providing motivation to study the masters of whatever genre should not be the teacher's responsibility: if the student does not already have the thirst for that, what's he doing wasting people's time? You don't exactly get into street by accident: you have had to have been impressed by something that amazed you at some time.

Neither do I hold with the sometimes fashion for knocking Ivo's street work; I think he actually does have a style very much his own, and as I think I mentioned before, both he and you, Oscar, do appear to share a sort of exotic eye for things that most of us would miss. Not always obvious, but it holds through the body of work.

RSL

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2019, 06:15:51 am »

Those who can, do; those who can't, teach; and those who can't teach, teach gym!

Peter

 ;D ;D ;D
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Ivo_B

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2019, 07:06:17 am »


I don't buy into that, not just because my daughter is a teacher, but because I know from personal experience that some things in life are easy for me to assimilate but others, never, however often somebody explains them. It might be a problem with learning or trying to learn particular things too late in life: put into that category the inner working of cellphones, iPads and computers. And books don't help because they don't approach problems properly (for me); I would like to see step 1, step 2. step 3, etc. etc. but nope, it's generalised instructions that don't face specific glitches.

[For instance: when my daughter arrived at Palma Airport a few days ago, she sent me a series of texts (as per usual on her trips to see me) advising when the transfer coach had left the airport and progress en route to our place, so I could meet her at the drop-off point. In all, five messages, each of which I answered, and my cellphone told me they had been received. Not one did get through to her. Later, we sat down and tried it again: her texts got through to me, but not mine to her. Why? You see the problems I face with tech? Hers is an iPhone, mine a Samsung.]

Providing motivation to study the masters of whatever genre should not be the teacher's responsibility: if the student does not already have the thirst for that, what's he doing wasting people's time? You don't exactly get into street by accident: you have had to have been impressed by something that amazed you at some time.

Neither do I hold with the sometimes fashion for knocking Ivo's street work; I think he actually does have a style very much his own, and as I think I mentioned before, both he and you, Oscar, do appear to share a sort of exotic eye for things that most of us would miss. Not always obvious, but it holds through the body of work.
It is not because someone left the flattened trail, he is unaware of the trail.
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KLaban

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2019, 07:32:25 am »


I don't buy into that, not just because my daughter is a teacher, but because I know from personal experience that some things in life are easy for me to assimilate but others, never, however often somebody explains them. It might be a problem with learning or trying to learn particular things too late in life: put into that category the inner working of cellphones, iPads and computers. And books don't help because they don't approach problems properly (for me); I would like to see step 1, step 2. step 3, etc. etc. but nope, it's generalised instructions that don't face specific glitches.

[For instance: when my daughter arrived at Palma Airport a few days ago, she sent me a series of texts (as per usual on her trips to see me) advising when the transfer coach had left the airport and progress en route to our place, so I could meet her at the drop-off point. In all, five messages, each of which I answered, and my cellphone told me they had been received. Not one did get through to her. Later, we sat down and tried it again: her texts got through to me, but not mine to her. Why? You see the problems I face with tech? Hers is an iPhone, mine a Samsung.]

Providing motivation to study the masters of whatever genre should not be the teacher's responsibility: if the student does not already have the thirst for that, what's he doing wasting people's time? You don't exactly get into street by accident: you have had to have been impressed by something that amazed you at some time.

Neither do I hold with the sometimes fashion for knocking Ivo's street work; I think he actually does have a style very much his own, and as I think I mentioned before, both he and you, Oscar, do appear to share a sort of exotic eye for things that most of us would miss. Not always obvious, but it holds through the body of work.

I'm not sure who's doing the knocking here, but truth be told, street or not, his is the only work that I really look forward to seeing in this the Street Showcase.

Please, ignore the anally retentive and carry on, Sir.

degrub

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Re: Man of Letters
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2019, 09:17:54 am »


[For instance: when my daughter arrived at Palma Airport a few days ago, she sent me a series of texts (as per usual on her trips to see me) advising when the transfer coach had left the airport and progress en route to our place, so I could meet her at the drop-off point. In all, five messages, each of which I answered, and my cellphone told me they had been received. Not one did get through to her. Later, we sat down and tried it again: her texts got through to me, but not mine to her. Why? You see the problems I face with tech? Hers is an iPhone, mine a Samsung

It is likely nothing to do with you. SMS text messaging is a “best effort” approach with no required guarantee or verification of successful delivery. Many are lost between cell carriers. The “success” message that you get likely only means that the text reached your cell phone carrier’s system.

If you have a “smart” phone with a “data plan” you can likely use a chat type app instead that can be used over cell or over wifi for free (if no data plan).
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