A7r4 announcement today

[John Camp]

Let the whining begin.

I would say that for roughly (pulls number from butt) 99 percent of people shooting photographs, an iPhone is good enough. For the remaining 1% of us, 20-25mp is good enough for a big chunk of shooters. A smaller chunk *really* needs the 47mp. A tiny vanishing few may *really* need the 61 mp. How many people *really* need the sixteen-image pixel shift? (Pulls another number from butt.) Mmm, I'd say...10? Worldwide? Gonna be tough getting companies to devote expensive software research for whatever that number really is...

Perhaps there are industrial applications that I don't know about.

[32BT]

Any thoughts on the pixel shift capability?

Utterly senseless in comparison to pano stitching. You could get a better final image with an el cheapo pocketzoom and pano stitching 16 images, than trying to do so with 60mpx shifts and an horrendously expensive lens. Seriously, makes no sense.

Seems a bit like the megapixel race all over again.

[Jim Kasson]

Utterly senseless in comparison to pano stitching. You could get a better final image with an el cheapo pocketzoom and pano stitching 16 images, than trying to do so with 60mpx shifts and an horrendously expensive lens. Seriously, makes no sense.

Seems a bit like the megapixel race all over again.

In my photography, I don't see much overlap of the two use cases, although I can see how there might be some for some people. I think pixel shift -- when you can use it -- is useful chiefly for eliminating demosaicing artifacts.

[SrMi]

Of course. On a related point...

They're talking about 15 stops of DR. If they mean EDR, they won't be able to do that with 14-bit precision. If they go to 16-bit, that will break the current craw compression.

Jim

Sony already claims 15-stops of DR for a7rIII.

[BernardLanguillier]

Sounds like a nice upgrade.

The UI and AF improvements are probably more relevant for many photographers than the slight increase of resolution, although I am personally always in favor of more detail.

I see the early announcement as a proactive strike against the upcoming higher res pro mirrorless bodies of Nikon and Canon. Although the Sony is tempting I’ll personally wait for those before making any move.

What I find interesting is the combined claim by some that the a9 is already today a perfect camera easily outdoing the D5/1DxII and the high expectation for an a9II. 😀 I see very very few D5/1DxII shooters saying they are eagerly waiting for the D6/1DxIII.

This whole discussion feels like it’s focused on owning the camera that will enable it’s owners to win in forum discussions rather than the one actually enabling a photographic vision. Which means that the a7rIV isn’t deemed good enough over the anticipated competition to be a sufficiently solid ego support tool (not talking about you Martin).

Cheers,
Bernard

[chez]

Sounds like a nice upgrade.

The UI and AF improvements are probably more relevant for many photographers than the slight increase of resolution, although I am personally always in favor of more detail.

I see the early announcement as a proactive strike against the upcoming higher res pro mirrorless bodies of Nikon and Canon. Although the Sony is tempting I’ll personally wait for those before making any move.

Cheers,
Bernard

Actually the AF abilities and the over speed of the camera are very impressive. Pushing that much data at 10fps is no small feat. The eye AF detection and tracking seem to be a big improvement. Can't wait for the reviews...but this camera seems to fill a lot of gaps including wildlife and sports. Be interesting to see how well focus tracking works in video...that alone could be a game changer for many.

[Martin Kristiansen]

Sounds like a nice upgrade.

The UI and AF improvements are probably more relevant for many photographers than the slight increase of resolution, although I am personally always in favor of more detail.

I see the early announcement as a proactive strike against the upcoming higher res pro mirrorless bodies of Nikon and Canon. Although the Sony is tempting I’ll personally wait for those before making any move.

What I find interesting is the combined claim by some that the a9 is already today a perfect camera easily outdoing the D5/1DxII and the high expectation for an a9II. 😀 I see very very few D5/1DxII shooters saying they are eagerly waiting for the D6/1DxIII.

This whole discussion feels like it’s focused on owning the camera that will enable it’s owners to win in forum discussions rather than the one actually enabling a photographic vision. Which means that the a7rIV isn’t deemed good enough over the anticipated competition to be a sufficiently solid ego support tool (not talking about you Martin).

Cheers,
Bernard

I have to be perfectly honest and say I will buy an A9 ii in a heartbeat and while it most likely won’t be to win a forum discussion I can’t really say why I would buy it. There isn't t really anything that bothers me with the current model. Thing is I spend so much time with a camera in my hands that its not nothing to get a bit excited about the technology while admitting it’s not currently actually critical to my needs.

Dam Bernard. Now I have splashed cold reality in my face I feel a bit foolish for being excited about the prospect of a new camera.

[faberryman]

I see the early announcement as a proactive strike against the upcoming higher res pro mirrorless bodies of Nikon and Canon.

Which upcoming Nikon and Canon bodies are those? Presumably at some point in the future they will release new bodies, but when that will be is anybodies guess. The Z6/Z7 and EOS RP/R are less than a year old. I imagine Sony is going to defer selling the 61MP sensor to its competitors for some period of time.

[fdisilvestro]

Looks impressive, still I don't understand why no H.265 for the video modes

[Jim Kasson]

Sony already claims 15-stops of DR for a7rIII.

Only in pixel-shift mode, right?

[DP]

Of course. On a related point...

They're talking about 15 stops of DR. If they mean EDR, they won't be able to do that with 14-bit precision. If they go to 16-bit, that will break the current craw compression.

Jim

I-R wrote "The image sensor, paired with a front-end LSI and Sony's latest BIONZ X image processor, processes 16-bit images which are then output at up to 14 bits. Output remains at 14 bit, even when shooting in silent mode or using continuous shooting modes, save for when shooting continuous compressed raw files, which are 12 bits. Like previous Alpha models, it does not appear that the A7R IV offers a lossless compressed raw recording option."... if they are to be believed, then no new mod of the existing raw format

[SrMi]

Only in pixel-shift mode, right?

It is my understanding that Sony specifies 15 stops dynamic range in regular mode. After all, DXO measures dynamic range of 14.7 EV for a7riii (Z 7 measures 14.6 EV). Of course other measure it much less, as they measure it differently.

[DP]

If the A9II manages 36-45MP

it will not - for A9 line so far the main priority still remains is to be finally better in AF vs D* / 1D* dSLRs in all aspects... not in resolution department... making more mp will only complicate achieving the main goal...

[capital]

Is there any description of how the camera takes the 16 shots in multi shot mode?

It seems that Olympus and Panasonic are accomplishing the "same" hi-res mode with only 8 shots, whereas this new Sony requires 16. What is the engineering rationale? etc...

[Jim Kasson]

It is my understanding that Sony specifies 15 stops dynamic range in regular mode. After all, DXO measures dynamic range of 14.7 EV for a7riii (Z 7 measures 14.6 EV). Of course other measure it much less, as they measure it differently.

I have not seen that assertion from Sony. Do you have a link?

[Martin Kristiansen]

A Sony microphone that uses hot shoe connection rather than a wire down the side. That’s useful. Continuous eye AF in video mode is really going to be useful. With the way things are going commercially anything that improves video is going to be good for me.

The reviewers I have watched on YouTube reading from a Sony hand out all say 15 stops of DR. I don’t think that’s surprising since the iii was not far off that. Personally for me the DR wars are pretty much over much like the MP wars but I know that’s not everyone’s opinion on the matter. Deeper grip might also please people, again I don’t care one way or another, I have picked raspberries for a living and if you can do that you can hold any FF camera ever made. Slightly better weather sealing around the battery compartment. I would be more enthusiastic but something to close off in front of the sensor when changing lenses. It’s winter where I live so I haven’t seen a cloud in two months and won’t get any rain until October but dust, loads of dust. I want dust sealing on the sensor. Minority view I know.

Better buttons they are also saying. That could be nice. The Z Nikon buttons have a much better feel than the buttons on my Sony cameras.  Better joystick. I haven’t actually found a use for the joystick so far. WiFi tethering, now that’s a thing I could like depending on transfer speeds. I shoot tethered a hell of a lot. Started with scsi all those years ago then various FireWire standards now USB. I’m sick of cables.  If the speed of transfer is good enough that could actually push me to upgrade.

Price is also really good for a camera of this level. That’s going to put pressure on Nikon and Canon on what they can charge when they bring out upgrades, which they will have to do at some point, especially Canon. It looks like a very solid upgrade all round. 

[shadowblade]

it will not - for A9 line so far the main priority still remains is to be finally better in AF vs D* / 1D* dSLRs in all aspects... not in resolution department... making more mp will only complicate achieving the main goal...

The 36MP sensor announced by Sony alongside the 60MP sensor earlier this year looks very much like an A9II sensor, or closely related to it.

[SrMi]

I have not seen that assertion from Sony. Do you have a link?

Just read on DPR “that '15 stops of DR' figure Sony is advertising is with downscaled, 8MP images”.

Regarding assertion question:
I have not read anywhere a disclaimer that 15 stops is with pixel shift only, hence I assume it is with regular shooting.

[BernardLanguillier]

The 36MP sensor announced by Sony alongside the 60MP sensor earlier this year looks very much like an A9II sensor, or closely related to it.

I believe that a majority of serious sports shooters would be actively unhappy about a 36mp sensor.

Managing this amount of data would be essentially an issue with little value for real world applications.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Martin Kristiansen]

I believe that a majority of serious sports shooters would be actively unhappy about a 36mp sensor.

Managing this amount of data would be essentially an issue with little value for real world applications.

Cheers,
Bernard

I would much prefer 24MP on a A9ii and totally uncompromising performance in everything else. If I need more MP there is the R series.