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Author Topic: Extreme weather  (Read 54378 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #740 on: September 03, 2019, 08:37:58 am »

Here's an article linking recent research on volcanic CO2 emissions.

Sadly, that article was written by a guy (James E. Kamis) who also writes on the about page of his website:
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He is proud to have worked for mining and oil companies that practiced responsible harvesting of materials necessary to sustain human life; Becker Industries, ARCO, Cross Timbers, Texaco, Fina, Union 76, and BTA Oil Producers LLC. He is currently retired.

Really Ray, Really? That's the best you can do?
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jeremyrh

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #741 on: September 03, 2019, 09:19:40 am »

And here is a more detailed explanation (10 main lines of evidence to be considered) of the same process of determining the man-made origin, i.e. from burning fossil fuel:
Climate change cluedo: Anthropogenic CO2
https://skepticalscience.com/anthrocarbon-brief.html

And here's more evidence of the CO2 isotope ratios telling us a clear tale:
https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/outreach/isotopes/mixing.html

A falling amount of 13-C, and an absence of  14-C, is caused by a net increase of 12-C (coming from very old plantbased material).

Cheers,
Bart

I also linked to a similar article from, as I recall, Technology Review.
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Ray

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #742 on: September 03, 2019, 09:24:47 am »

And here is a more detailed explanation (10 main lines of evidence to be considered) of the same process of determining the man-made origin, i.e. from burning fossil fuel:
Climate change cluedo: Anthropogenic CO2
https://skepticalscience.com/anthrocarbon-brief.html

And here's more evidence of the CO2 isotope ratios telling us a clear tale:
https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/outreach/isotopes/mixing.html

A falling amount of 13-C, and an absence of  14-C, is caused by a net increase of 12-C (coming from very old plantbased material).

Cheers,
Bart

Well, thanks for at least attempting to explain the difference, Bart, but I'm not convinced. Can you provide a link to some real scientific research which makes this clear? I don't automatically accept statements made on Youtube videos without references to reliable scientific studies. I want to see the scientific evidence.

I don't care who provides the link to the scientific evidence. It is the quality of the evidence that counts, not your subjective impression of the person who provided the link.

The following link that I provided earlier, makes a clear statement on the issue, with a link to a Skepticalscience.com article in support of their statement.

http://www.plateclimatology.com/discovery-of-massive-volcanic-co2-emissions-puts-damper-on-global-warming-theory

"Natural volcanic and man-made CO2 emissions have the exact same and very distinctive carbon isotopic fingerprint.  It is therefore scientifically impossible to distinguish the difference between volcanic CO2 and human-induced CO2 from the burning of fossil fuels (see here). https://skepticalscience.com/anthrocarbon-brief.html

"Declining C14 ratio indicates the source is very old, hence fossil fuel or volcanic (ie, not oceanic outgassing or a recent biological source);
4) Declining C14 ratio
Carbon 14 is formed in the atmosphere by collisions between cosmic rays and Nitrogen.  It has a very short half life (5,730 years), but atmospheric C14 is continuously replenished, maintaining a near constant concentration.  Buried C14 is not replenished, however.  As a result, whether from volcanoes or fossil fuels, CO2 from long-buried sources has effectively no C14.  The addition of large quantities of CO2 from a long-buried source to the atmosphere will result in a significant decline in C14 concentration in the atmosphere, which is what we see.  More recent, high precision measurements show the decline in C14 continued after the end of atmospheric nuclear testing.This is strong evidence that the source of the increased concentration of CO2 is fossil carbon, either from volcanoes or from fossil fuels."


I've searched Google Scholar for studies that specifically address this issue, how to distinguish between volcanic CO2 and CO2 from fossil fuel, and cannot find anything definite relating to differences in isotopic fingerprints. It seem there might be something very uncertain here.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #743 on: September 03, 2019, 09:50:35 am »

I'm back. :)   I surprised I haven't heard any arguments or read any articles that Hurricane Dorian's severe and unusual tracking is due to global warming.  So many have argued recently that we're having more severe storms because of global warming.   Have these people changed their minds?

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #744 on: September 03, 2019, 10:04:31 am »

I'm back. :)   I surprised I haven't heard any arguments or read any articles that Hurricane Dorian's severe and unusual tracking is due to global warming.  So many have argued recently that we're having more severe storms because of global warming.   Have these people changed their minds?

The hurricane changed its Florida-bound trajectory, but I don't think people have changed their minds about the effect of climate change on hurricanes.
It's well known fact that hurricanes form over the warm ocean water of the tropics. The warm water heats the air, the hot air rises, cold air replaces it, then it warms up again and the cycle continues creating large storm clouds. The warmer the ocean, the stronger and more frequent the hurricanes.

Lately, there was also a lot of turbulence in the stock market. A lot of damage and strong swings due to hot air. The season is not over yet.

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Three Category 5 hurricanes have hit the mainland U.S. or U.S. territories, including Puerto Rico, since Trump was inaugurated: Irma and Maria in 2017, and Michael in 2018. Between them, the storms caused about $165 billion in damage.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-31/trump-helicopters-into-golf-course-after-staying-back-for-storm?srnd=premium-canada
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 10:13:02 am by LesPalenik »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #745 on: September 03, 2019, 10:26:03 am »

The hurricane changed its Florida-bound trajectory, but I don't think people have changed their minds about the effect of climate change on hurricanes.
It's well known fact that hurricanes form over the warm ocean water of the tropics. The warm water heats the air, the hot air rises, cold air replaces it, then it warms up again and the cycle continues creating large storm clouds. The warmer the ocean, the stronger and more frequent the hurricanes.

Lately, there was also a lot of turbulence in the stock market. A lot of damage and strong swings due to hot air. The season is not over yet.

Quote
Three Category 5 hurricanes have hit the mainland U.S. or U.S. territories, including Puerto Rico, since Trump was inaugurated: Irma and Maria in 2017, and Michael in 2018. Between them, the storms caused about $165 billion in damage.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-31/trump-helicopters-into-golf-course-after-staying-back-for-storm?srnd=premium-canada

I was reading that the Bahamas got hit with a similar severe storm in 1935 before the industrial revolution and Trump was born.   I wonder what caused it? :)

Rob C

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #746 on: September 03, 2019, 10:43:20 am »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-31/trump-helicopters-into-golf-course-after-staying-back-for-storm?srnd=premium-canada


I was reading that the Bahamas got hit with a similar severe storm in 1935 before the industrial revolution and Trump was born.   I wonder what caused it? :)


Les has just explained it to you.

If you are an impatient lad, wait a little while, and a new #6 category will have to be factored into the scale. You read it first here.

Rob

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #747 on: September 03, 2019, 10:44:49 am »

Some lads have no sense of humor.

degrub

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #748 on: September 03, 2019, 11:03:08 am »

"severe storm in 1935 before the industrial revolution "

Whose industrial revolution ?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #749 on: September 03, 2019, 11:04:32 am »

"severe storm in 1935 before the industrial revolution "

Whose industrial revolution ?
Pick one.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #750 on: September 03, 2019, 11:23:08 am »

Well said, that's common sense. Who would argue with that?

Moi.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #751 on: September 03, 2019, 11:24:41 am »

Some lads have no sense of humor.

Dorian is no laughing matter.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #752 on: September 03, 2019, 11:29:32 am »

Peter McLennan

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #753 on: September 03, 2019, 12:35:29 pm »

When you let climate alarmists narrate hurricanes:

https://twitter.com/_hanya_m/status/1167157777518735360?s=12

Scroll down the feed and you'll see someone stating that it's a Fox News report.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 02:48:06 pm by Peter McLennan »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #754 on: September 03, 2019, 02:10:15 pm »

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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #755 on: September 03, 2019, 09:53:23 pm »

Life's a beach.

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #756 on: September 05, 2019, 11:22:05 pm »

Life's a beach.

Extreme weather ain't all bad.  Look what's washed up on the beach.

"Hurricane Dorian washes bricks of cocaine onto Florida beaches"
https://fox59.com/2019/09/04/hurricane-dorian-washes-bricks-of-cocaine-onto-florida-beaches/

LesPalenik

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #757 on: September 10, 2019, 01:53:27 am »

Interesting and insightful report on forest fires with possible connection to climate change. Report was done by CBC's Passionate Eye team, about the forest fires in California.

Quote
Look at the rise of massive wildfires across the globe. From testing inside an active fire, to studying a blaze in a lab, scientists search for ways to reduce the dangers these infernos pose.

Duration 45 minutes. Viewable in Canada, maybe also in other countries.

https://gem.cbc.ca/media/media/the-passionate-eye/episode-7/38e815a-0119be921c4
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Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #758 on: September 10, 2019, 09:18:17 am »

Video not available in the USA.  In any case, forest fires are a natural occurrence. They're required to clear away the brush that lets the trees propagate and grow.  Often, we put out fires to protect homes and people that naturally would have burned.  That creates a lot more brush than should be there.  So then when a fire start, we can't control it.  It really gets out of hand and destroys the trees as well. 

When I visited Grand Canyon last year, I noticed piles and piles of brush that had been gathered for pickup later and removal.  The government was clearing away the brush that fires use to eliminate  naturally. 

If it gets warmer, with more storms, there probably will be more forest fires started.  On the other hand, warmer climate has made more land open for forests to grow.  Up where you live in Canada, the tree line is moving north as well as up mountains because of higher temperatures.  More trees, more birds, more insects, more deer, more wolves, more bears, more people who can live there.  It's a good thing. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Extreme weather
« Reply #759 on: September 11, 2019, 06:00:52 pm »

Looks like the fight against global warming is over when the liberal New Yorker Magazine comes out against it.  The world must be coming to an end, for sure.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/what-if-we-stopped-pretending
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