Canon 4000 sale, should I replace my iPF8300

[routlaw]

Hopefully the subject line says it all, but just to add a bit more info. My 8300 is still working though I have had some issues with it over the years all fixed for now. It is coming up to 8 years (next month) of being in service and has some $1500.00 worth of ink still left in the machine. While I can't complain about the print quality of the existing older machine its my understanding these newer printers have been improved substantially from the older 8300/8400 machines.

My gut instinct tells me this is a good time to replace my older printer, but the thought of taking yet another LF printer out to the local landfill really bugs me. My previous two Epson's RIP are out there. I doubt I can find a buyer for an 8 year old printer working or not, let alone with $1500 worth of ink in the machine.

I look forward to anyones thought on this.

Thanks

[deanwork]

Well I have one also, the same age as yours. This has been the most solid and dependable large format printer I’ve owned, and that includes 6 big Epsons and two HPZs.

I was thinking of upgrading to the new Canon also if I needed to until I found out how they downgraded the longevity of this new Lucia Pro inkset. The new Canons have a little expanded gamut that I would never notice with good profiles for photo work ( my 8300 can match my Epson k3 and HpZ3200 prints easily).

My heads on the 8300 last over two years and I just replaced them both. This thing is a tank and I won’t replace it untill I really have to. Like you, why would I want to move this giant when it is so reliable.

The gloss prints I do on rc media look perfect and the fiber gloss prints look as good as any inkset since I spray them with a durable uv coat that works perfectly for limited edition portfolios. It also prints wonderfully at the higher speed unidirectional mode. Great for canvas production too.

The only issue I ever had was when lightning produced a big surge and zapped the main board in the second year I had it. I learned a big lesson at that time, unplug always during storms or when out of town.

I honestly don’t think the Chinese made Canons will ever last as long as the 8300 series. But many folks are convinced you need to replace your printers every 3-5 years. I usually restore mine if possible.


John

Hopefully the subject line says it all, but just to add a bit more info. My 8300 is still working though I have had some issues with it over the years all fixed for now. It is coming up to 8 years (next month) of being in service and has some $1500.00 worth of ink still left in the machine. While I can't complain about the print quality of the existing older machine its my understanding these newer printers have been improved substantially from the older 8300/8400 machines.

My gut instinct tells me this is a good time to replace my older printer, but the thought of taking yet another LF printer out to the local landfill really bugs me. My previous two Epson's RIP are out there. I doubt I can find a buyer for an 8 year old printer working or not, let alone with $1500 worth of ink in the machine.

I look forward to anyones thought on this.

Thanks

[stockjock]

The gloss prints I do on rc media look perfect and the fiber gloss prints look as good as any inkset since I spray them with a durable uv coat that works perfectly for limited edition portfolios. It also prints wonderfully at the higher speed unidirectional mode. Great for canvas production too.

What are you spraying your prints with?  I haven't had much luck with the products I've tried.

[mearussi]

Hopefully the subject line says it all, but just to add a bit more info. My 8300 is still working though I have had some issues with it over the years all fixed for now. It is coming up to 8 years (next month) of being in service and has some $1500.00 worth of ink still left in the machine. While I can't complain about the print quality of the existing older machine its my understanding these newer printers have been improved substantially from the older 8300/8400 machines.

My gut instinct tells me this is a good time to replace my older printer, but the thought of taking yet another LF printer out to the local landfill really bugs me. My previous two Epson's RIP are out there. I doubt I can find a buyer for an 8 year old printer working or not, let alone with $1500 worth of ink in the machine.

I look forward to anyones thought on this.

Thanks

The image quality of the new printers have been improved slightly from what I've read. I own a ipf6400 and love it compared to the Epsons I used to have. And if you're anywhere near Portland, OR let me know if you still want to get rid on your ipf8300. 

[deanwork]

I have been using the Hahnemuhle Protective uv spray for over 10 years and before that the Premiere Art version. I believe Hah. bought Premiere or something along those lines. More recently I’ve also used the Moab Desert Varnish which could be the same exact product but in cans with a little better nozzle.

I’ve done many thousands of prints of. All sizes and I don’t remember ever messing one up. But I don’t spray rc prints. If you are going to do that they should be cured for about a week in my opinion to thoroughly out gas.


I use this spray on all other kinds of media. I use it a lot on the Platine for portfolios. What I do is polish the blank white borders with a lint free cloth ( I use new clean cotton t-shirts bought for this purpose. ) otherwise with that Platine media you can see a very slight frosty grayness, only in the borders, that the quick rubbing with cotton cloth removes. Then you have the closest thing to a silver print I’ve ever seen. I even use those sprays with the Hp Vivera inks that already have a gloss enhancer channel. It gives more protection if the prints are to be handled or not shown behind plexi.

With all the other fiber gloss papers and matte media, spraying is only necessary if you want more uv or surface protection.

These sprays slightly increase the dmax of papers printed with the PK ink.

John

What are you spraying your prints with?  I haven't had much luck with the products I've tried.

[stockjock]

I have been using the Hahnemuhle Protective uv spray for over 10 years and before that the Premiere Art version. I believe Hah. bought Premiere or something along those lines. More recently I’ve also used the Moab Desert Varnish which could be the same exact product but in cans with a little better nozzle.

I’ve done many thousands of prints of. All sizes and I don’t remember ever messing one up. But I don’t spray rc prints. If you are going to do that they should be cured for about a week in my opinion to thoroughly out gas.


I use this spray on all other kinds of media. I use it a lot on the Platine for portfolios. What I do is polish the blank white borders with a lint free cloth ( I use new clean cotton t-shirts bought for this purpose. ) otherwise with that Platine media you can see a very slight frosty grayness, only in the borders, that the quick rubbing with cotton cloth removes. Then you have the closest thing to a silver print I’ve ever seen. I even use those sprays with the Hp Vivera inks that already have a gloss enhancer channel. It gives more protection if the prints are to be handled or not shown behind plexi.

With all the other fiber gloss papers and matte media, spraying is only necessary if you want more uv or surface protection.

These sprays slightly increase the dmax of papers printed with the PK ink.

John

I've tried the Moab Desert Varnish on Platine but I must be applying it unevenly because when I do it I get a kind of patchy surface.  I suppose it is a practice makes perfect situation.

[deanwork]

I spray 6 inches from the paper. Three light coats, drying in between, while spraying in a wave pattern - horizontal, vertical, then diagonal. Never had a problem unless I tried to do one big heavy coat.

I've tried the Moab Desert Varnish on Platine but I must be applying it unevenly because when I do it I get a kind of patchy surface.  I suppose it is a practice makes perfect situation.

[mearussi]

I've tried the Moab Desert Varnish on Platine but I must be applying it unevenly because when I do it I get a kind of patchy surface.  I suppose it is a practice makes perfect situation.

I've tried all there and don't really like Moab as the spray comes out too voluminous, it puts down too much liquid causing it to run if you're not careful. Hahnemuhle and Premier Art are much less intense and easier to control, and if you buy it by the case (at itsupplies) Premier Art is the least expensive. 

[dgberg]

I have been using the Hahnemuhle Protective uv spray for over 10 years and before that the Premiere Art version. I believe Hah. bought Premiere or something along those lines. More recently I’ve also used the Moab Desert Varnish which could be the same exact product but in cans with a little better nozzle.

I’ve done many thousands of prints of. All sizes and I don’t remember ever messing one up. But I don’t spray rc prints. If you are going to do that they should be cured for about a week in my opinion to thoroughly out gas.


I use this spray on all other kinds of media. I use it a lot on the Platine for portfolios. What I do is polish the blank white borders with a lint free cloth ( I use new clean cotton t-shirts bought for this purpose. ) otherwise with that Platine media you can see a very slight frosty grayness, only in the borders, that the quick rubbing with cotton cloth removes. Then you have the closest thing to a silver print I’ve ever seen. I even use those sprays with the Hp Vivera inks that already have a gloss enhancer channel. It gives more protection if the prints are to be handled or not shown behind plexi.

With all the other fiber gloss papers and matte media, spraying is only necessary if you want more uv or surface protection.

These sprays slightly increase the dmax of papers printed with the PK ink.

John

John.

What sheen are you using?
I am presently trying out a case of Krylon UV-Resistant Crystal Clear Gloss 11 oz. cans.
A case of 6 was around $66.00.
Laying down about 1 oz. per square foot so is easy to cost out at a $1 a sq. foot.
A little too shiny for my taste but lays down a beautiful gloss sheen on Hahnemuehle FAB.
The matte is available but the semi-gloss not so much.
I know Print Shield has it in gallons but at $120+ a gallon still too pricy for me.
Would love to find a semigloss in gallons at about half that price so that I could use my Binks spray gun. (Much better results.)

Sorry to the op for getting slightly off topic.

[mearussi]

John.

What sheen are you using?
I am presently trying out a case of Krylon UV-Resistant Crystal Clear Gloss 11 oz. cans.
A case of 6 was around $66.00.
Laying down about 1 oz. per square foot so is easy to cost out at a $1 a sq. foot.
A little too shiny for my taste but lays down a beautiful gloss sheen on Hahnemuehle FAB.
The matte is available but the semi-gloss not so much.
I know Print Shield has it in gallons but at $120+ a gallon still too pricy for me.
Would love to find a semigloss in gallons at about half that price so that I could use my Binks spray gun. (Much better results.)

Sorry to the op for getting slightly off topic.

You might want to watch these two videos from Jose testing the various spray brands:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cb3gsAzfAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvjKM4luCY

[dgberg]

You might want to watch these two videos from Jose testing the various spray brands:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cb3gsAzfAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvjKM4luCY

Not what I am using.
I have the artists UV version a very premium product.
With 25 years as the finisher in my custom cabinetry business I have worked with the best equipment and the best finishes.
It was my profession and have carried it over to spraying my canvas and photo papers.
Just looking for a semi-gloss version in gallon cans.

My spray booth with 3 different pot/guns for 3 different sheens. All Glamor II. A fourth cup gun for solvent based finishes like we are discussing.

[John Nollendorfs]

Dan:
Have you considered the new catalyzed laquers  like this?
https://www.amazon.com/DuraCoat-Pre-Catalyzed-Lacquer-M61024407-Sheen/dp/B06Y2F8NGW/ref=asc_df_B06Y2F8NGW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=343221141081&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17474141768198514652&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9024742&hvtargid=pla-757417616309&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=70737352922&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=343221141081&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17474141768198514652&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9024742&hvtargid=pla-757417616309

[dgberg]

I have not but I know about it.
I have some Sherwin Williams water white catalyzed lacquer which requires a catalyst.
Have never used it on canvas. My biggest concern would be does it maintain it's flexibility for stretching.
I know the SW's product has good uv properties and will not yellow.

[I.T. Supplies]

PremierArt, Moab, Hahnemuhle and Simply Elegant (IT Supplies house brand) spray are exactly the same product.  We all put our own labels on it.   Sometimes you get a can that doesn't work like the others do properly; it happens.

The only brand that we carry that sells other finishes is ClearJet (Clear Star or the manufacturer "Marabu" spray) which come in low/semi/gloss finishes.

[John Nollendorfs]

I have not but I know about it.
I have some Sherwin Williams water white catalyzed lacquer which requires a catalyst.
Have never used it on canvas. My biggest concern would be does it maintain it's flexibility for stretching.
I know the SW's product has good uv properties and will not yellow.

Dan,
I was suggesting this instead of Primier, for art prints, not on Canvas, since you were looking for something in gallons, more reasonably priced.
 I've been using the Rosco Clear Acrylic Glaze #5580 diluted 1-1 with water , sprayed on my canvas for over 10 years. Half the price of Glamour.

[dgberg]

Got it John, thanks.

[deanwork]

That’s what I thought, and what I’ve heard many times over the years. I’ve used these solvent aerosol sprays since they first came out and the only differences I’ve ever seen is the way the nozzles on the cans are made, and none of them were so bad I couldn’t use them. All of these have no real effect on the surface appearance of the papers unless you put way too much on.



John

PremierArt, Moab, Hahnemuhle and Simply Elegant (IT Supplies house brand) spray are exactly the same product.  We all put our own labels on it.   Sometimes you get a can that doesn't work like the others do properly; it happens.

The only brand that we carry that sells other finishes is ClearJet (Clear Star or the manufacturer "Marabu" spray) which come in low/semi/gloss finishes.

[routlaw]

Apologies for getting back to this thread so late, got really busy after making my initial post. Obviously I missed the end of quarter sale but it appears its back on in a different way.

However its my understanding these newer 2K and 4K machines are NOT made in China but in Japan. I believe the 84K machines might have been made in China due to a tsunami that destroyed a plant in Japan but that was rebuilt or relocated to different area of Japan before starting the manufacturing of the 2K and 4K machines.

I see that iT Supplies responds on these threads so perhaps they can validate my previous comment one way or the other.

I don't want to keep morphing the thread off track but to concur with what others have stated I have also sprayed many Platine as well as Baryta papers with the Premier Art products. I prefer to use the lacquer finishes first which provides a water resistant finish and prepares the paper for any number of other finishes later. I have also experimented with aqueous finishes directly onto both mat fine art papers as well as glossier finishes such as Platine. It works though it will temporarily buckle and swell the paper, however it will eventually lay flat after drying. I do use a true HVLP spray system when doing this.

I honestly don’t think the Chinese made Canons will ever last as long as the 8300 series. But many folks are convinced you need to replace your printers every 3-5 years. I usually restore mine if possible.


John

[I.T. Supplies]

The 2k/4k Canon's are made in Thailand now.  Their inks/print head are from Japan; roll holder set, maintenance cartridge, blade and multifunction roll unit from Thailand as well.

Which 84k unit you referring to?  Oce brand...

Hope this helps.

[deanwork]

He said they moved production for the IPF 8400 to China after the earthquake in Japan damaged the Canon facilities where the IPF 8300 was produced. That was my understanding also.

The 2k/4k Canon's are made in Thailand now.  Their inks/print head are from Japan; roll holder set, maintenance cartridge, blade and multifunction roll unit from Thailand as well.

Which 84k unit you referring to?  Oce brand...

Hope this helps.