Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 48   Go Down

Author Topic: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other  (Read 67592 times)

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #260 on: July 03, 2019, 11:59:12 pm »

Do you really think that the Democrats will change tax laws that really hurt the rich if they win?

That is precisely what Elizabeth Warren is saying she'll do.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #261 on: July 04, 2019, 09:48:00 am »

That is precisely what Elizabeth Warren is saying she'll do.
I don;t think she's going to be nominated or win if she is.  In any case, it requires Congress to pass legislation, and they only tweak taxes.  Not enough to hurt the rich.  There are always loopholes the rich can take advantage of that the rest of us can't.  In any case, most Americans don't care about rich people and actually admire them.  Only socialists who want to redistribute wealth hate them.  Most Americans are worried about health care for themselves and their own financial issues.  They don;t walk around wanted to "punish" the rich for being successful.  They wish they were one of them and hope some day to be successful like them.  This still is America after all. 

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #262 on: July 04, 2019, 09:58:48 am »

Republican Congressman Amash quits the Republican party.  Amash, a libertarian, has been the one Republican along with Democrats calling for impeachment of Trump.  So now it seems he may run as a third party candidate for president.  If he does, who will he hurt more?  The Democrat or Republican in the election?  Which votes will he peel off?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/politics/justin-amash-leaving-gop/index.html

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #263 on: July 04, 2019, 10:12:25 am »

... most Americans don't care about rich people and actually admire them...

"Most Americans are just temporarily embarrassed millionaires" someone said ;)

James Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2347
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #264 on: July 04, 2019, 12:13:50 pm »

« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 12:55:26 pm by James Clark »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #266 on: July 04, 2019, 12:32:16 pm »

Cut here some slack, she's just trying to figure out out who we're supposed to be trying to hurt.

Let's see.  Warren, the left and Democrats don't want to hurt Trump, his kids, or anyone else or put them in jail.  Maybe hang them.  They don't want to deny those who believe differently the right to speak freely.  They don't want to take away money from those who earned it and distribute to themselves. 

The thing we should all be against is more government power - on both sides.  It doesn;t matter who uses it.  It will always take away our freedoms.  It's government power that hurts us.  It doesn;t distinguish in the end because power itself corrupts.  We should vote for people who want to diminish power not just change who gets "hurt". 

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #267 on: July 04, 2019, 03:26:24 pm »

It's government power that hurts us.   

Just wondering, Alan.  Are you going to be celebrating the moon landing later this month?
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #268 on: July 04, 2019, 03:44:02 pm »

I don;t think she's going to be nominated or win if she is.  In any case, it requires Congress to pass legislation, and they only tweak taxes.  Not enough to hurt the rich.  There are always loopholes the rich can take advantage of that the rest of us can't.  In any case, most Americans don't care about rich people and actually admire them.  Only socialists who want to redistribute wealth hate them.  Most Americans are worried about health care for themselves and their own financial issues.  They don;t walk around wanted to "punish" the rich for being successful.  They wish they were one of them and hope some day to be successful like them.  This still is America after all.


An interesting collection of thoughts, there.

As we, the poor, can't "take advantage" of loopholes because we have no money on whose behalf to take that advantage, it shouldn't upset us if "the rich" can: the thing's academic.

That "most Americans are worried about health care for themselves and their own financial issues" kinda tells me that most Americans would be better of and enjoy a far more calm lifestyle, free of health worry, if they embraced one if those dreadful "socialist" parties that embraced a social health system that was absolute.

Your final point, that Americans don't grudge you your success, but rather strive for it themselves is something I always believed was true - but I don't know any Americans these days other than rather rich ones, so my view could be out if date - and was something I found in stark contrast to most of the Brits I used to know, who hated others doing well if they could not. My Humber brought me a lot of flak. So when it rusted I bought a sports car, just like Keith's.

:-)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 03:31:52 am by Rob C »
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25118
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #269 on: July 04, 2019, 03:47:05 pm »

Just wondering, Alan.  Are you going to be celebrating the moon landing later this month?


I think he's already been celebrating...

:-)

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #270 on: July 04, 2019, 03:48:20 pm »

In any case, it requires Congress to pass legislation, and they only tweak taxes.
That was quite a tweak last year.
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8919
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #271 on: July 04, 2019, 04:06:08 pm »

Just wondering, Alan.  Are you going to be celebrating the moon landing later this month?

He's over the moon with the military parade in Washington.
And all that without a Secretary of Defense since General Mattis left ...

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4349
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #272 on: July 04, 2019, 05:20:31 pm »


That "most Americans are worried about health care for themselves and their own financial issues" kind tells me that most Americans would be better of and enjoy a far more calm lifestyle, free of health worry, if they embraced one if those dreadful "socialist" parties that embraced a social health system that was absolute.

The trouble is most people don't understand how complicated the current system is.  Most large corporate HR departments hate company insurance plans as the largest number of questions they get come from employees who are having issues with the insurance company.  I think if you asked most CEOs the would be happy to see the government take things over in one form or another (doesn't have to be an NHS model; it could be a regulated insurance model like Switzerland or Holland) so the company could focus on making or selling stuff.

I am on the Board of Directors of a non-profit and one of our activities is providing health insurance to scientific researchers and their families.  I'm on the insurance committee and see the day to day stuff on claims.  Our organization self-insures but have a large insurance company that manages the claims.  We were in deep trouble three years ago as claims were outpacing premiums and the endowment was in trouble.  We had to make some difficult decisions about benefits and co-pays and it was not easy to do.  We stopped covering fertility treatments and tightened up the prescription drug formulary.  We have a $250,000 stop loss policy that we pay a lot of money for that will cap our payments in the event of a large claim.  One year we had several premature births and hit the stop-loss within a month.  One of those claims carried over into the next plan year and we had to eat another $250,000.  If more people had this type of day to day experience and education I would listen to them when talking about how to fix the healthcare problems in the US.  Unfortunately, they do not and only talk about how dangerous "socialized medicine" is despite not knowing much about how the current system works.
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #273 on: July 04, 2019, 05:43:21 pm »

... We were in deep trouble three years ago as claims were outpacing premiums and the endowment was in trouble.  We had to make some difficult decisions about benefits and co-pays and it was not easy to do...

If our esteemed pompous friend’s  (luckily, he ignores my posts) board was in “deep trouble” and “had to make some difficult decisions,” why do you think a socialized system won’t have to do the same and worse? People in socialized medicine have to wait for months for major procedures, if approved at all. My late mother had to wait seven months for a triple bypass, while in the same period being invited to the hospital three times, only to be returned from the hospital door with a “sorry, we are full.”

The latest Bernie Sanders proposal sounds like a wonderful dream: any doctor, any procedure, any hospital, any treatment, with no copays, no deductibles, no premiums. I mean, what’s not to like? Who in his sane mind wouldn’t like such a system? The only question is, how realistic is it? Can we really provide a unlimited budget for all of that? Or the government would soon start doing what Alan’s board had to do: stop covering certain treatments and drugs. Anyone who is familiar how VA (Veterans Administrarion) works, how long veterans have to wait and how often they are denied appropriate treatment, would know what I am talking about.

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #274 on: July 04, 2019, 08:15:21 pm »

Tell me where I'm wrong here:

Americans pay more for health care than any other nation.
Americans have the same or worse health care results than any other nation.
Americans frequently suffer irreparable financial ruin because they get sick.
Americans suffer the indignity and insanity of reading highway billboards advertising hospitals. (who pays for those ads?)
America is the only western nation to not offer universal, government funded health care.
America is host to some of the world's best medical technologies, practices and practitioners.
Democrats are in favour of aligning health care practices with those of the rest of the world.  Republicans refuse to consider this.

So, EITHER: the entire rest of the world (and Democrats) are wrong and Republicans (and the health care industry) are right.
     OR: Democrats (and the rest of the world) are right and Republicans are wrong.

Please correct any errors in my knowledge.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 09:00:24 pm by Peter McLennan »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #275 on: July 04, 2019, 10:10:53 pm »

Tell me where I'm wrong here:

Americans pay more for health care than any other nation.
Americans have the same or worse health care results than any other nation.
Americans frequently suffer irreparable financial ruin because they get sick.
Americans suffer the indignity and insanity of reading highway billboards advertising hospitals. (who pays for those ads?)
America is the only western nation to not offer universal, government funded health care.
America is host to some of the world's best medical technologies, practices and practitioners.
Democrats are in favour of aligning health care practices with those of the rest of the world.  Republicans refuse to consider this.

So, EITHER: the entire rest of the world (and Democrats) are wrong and Republicans (and the health care industry) are right.
     OR: Democrats (and the rest of the world) are right and Republicans are wrong.

Please correct any errors in my knowledge.


You will have to first reconcile the bold text with the rest of your knowledge. Why is it that we have the best?

BobShaw

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2271
    • Aspiration Images
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #276 on: July 04, 2019, 10:50:02 pm »

You will have to first reconcile the bold text with the rest of your knowledge. Why is it that we have the best?
Probably because you are the most populated western country. There are more doctors, more hospitals, more universities, etc. Does that make them the best?
I recently travelled a lot in the Middle East and there are specialised hospitals everywhere. There is probably one for ingrown toenails.
Logged
Website - http://AspirationImages.com
Studio and Commercial Photography

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #277 on: July 04, 2019, 11:32:57 pm »

I'm not sure that it's me that has to reconcile that item.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #278 on: July 05, 2019, 12:03:49 am »

If our esteemed pompous friend’s  (luckily, he ignores my posts) board was in “deep trouble” and “had to make some difficult decisions,” why do you think a socialized system won’t have to do the same and worse? People in socialized medicine have to wait for months for major procedures, if approved at all. My late mother had to wait seven months for a triple bypass, while in the same period being invited to the hospital three times, only to be returned from the hospital door with a “sorry, we are full.”

The latest Bernie Sanders proposal sounds like a wonderful dream: any doctor, any procedure, any hospital, any treatment, with no copays, no deductibles, no premiums. I mean, what’s not to like? Who in his sane mind wouldn’t like such a system? The only question is, how realistic is it? Can we really provide a unlimited budget for all of that? Or the government would soon start doing what Alan’s board had to do: stop covering certain treatments and drugs. Anyone who is familiar how VA (Veterans Administrarion) works, how long veterans have to wait and how often they are denied appropriate treatment, would know what I am talking about.


They can't.  That's what happened in Britain when the government let a child die overriding the parent's decision.  That's what happens with socialization.  Individuals lose their freedom.  It's powerful and uncaring government that decides.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/27/17286168/alfie-evans-toddler-uk-explained

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Republicans and democrats don't understand each other
« Reply #279 on: July 05, 2019, 02:58:23 am »


They can't.  That's what happened in Britain when the government let a child die overriding the parent's decision.  That's what happens with socialization.  Individuals lose their freedom.  It's powerful and uncaring government that decides.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/27/17286168/alfie-evans-toddler-uk-explained

On the contrary, the courts (not the government) took a decision in the interests of the child.  Parents don't have the right to subject their children to needless suffering.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 48   Go Up