Republicans and democrats don't understand each other

[jeremyrh]

Bottom line, Bart, Trump’s been putting the economic squeeze on these “leaders.” It’s having an effect.

Only it isn't - at least not in the way that Trump (claims that he) wants.  Before the US reneged on the Iran deal there was an opportunity to engage them about their activities elsewhere (supposing, for the sake of discussion, that one views their support of Hezbullah, offensive against ISIS etc.  to be illegitimate). Now there is no such opportunity. They are busy building a bomb and the hardliners are well in control.  The man in the street is economically hurt, but like American farmers, they are just viewed by their leaders as collateral damage.

[Alan Klein]

Only it isn't - at least not in the way that Trump (claims that he) wants.  Before the US reneged on the Iran deal there was an opportunity to engage them about their activities elsewhere (supposing, for the sake of discussion, that one views their support of Hezbullah, offensive against ISIS etc.  to be illegitimate). Now there is no such opportunity. They are busy building a bomb and the hardliners are well in control.  The man in the street is economically hurt, but like American farmers, they are just viewed by their leaders as collateral damage.

China agrees to move to an "equal playing field".  So Trump's tariffs are moving the ball to the goal line.  Of course, I don;t trust the Chinese.  But we'll see.  In any case, before Trump, no one hit China on any of their intellectual property theft and other predatory actions. If Trump can get them to change, even a little, your country and the whole world would benefit as well as America.  You should be hoping he succeeds.   
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/02/li-keqiang-china-will-become-an-even-playing-field-for-foreign-firms.html

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Like chickening out of Srebrenica they were supposed to protect.

Fake news, Slobodan. You should be ashamed of yourself, playing games over the backs of thousands of people killed. Disgusting.

The Dutch contingency was abandoned/refused (even after 4 repeated requests for close) air support by the French and American command of the joint UN troops, and when the enclave was virtually already overrun by Serb Troops with tanks (the Dutch were only allowed to be lightly armed, by treaty), American fighter pilots couldn't find the target area (too little too late). That was a signal to the Serb troops not to expect resistance (which was futile given the troop numbers), and they, not the Dutch, committed genocide on more than 8373 men and boys, and more are still being found each year.

Disgusting that one would even contemplate making fun of that situation, the worst genocide in Europe since WWII.

[Alan Klein]

Fake news, Slobodan. You should be ashamed of yourself, playing games over the backs of thousands of people killed. Disgusting.

The Dutch contingency was abandoned/refused (even after 4 repeated requests for close) air support by the French and American command of the joint UN troops, and when the enclave was virtually already overrun by Serb Troops with tanks (the Dutch were only allowed to be lightly armored, by treaty), American fighter pilots couldn't find the target area. That was a signal to the Serb troops not to expect resistance (which was futile given the troop numbers), and they, not the Dutch, committed genocide on more than 8373 men and boys, and more are still being found each year.

Disgusting that one would even contemplate making fun of that situation, the worst genocide in Europe since WWII.

No one is excusing the Serbs.  But if the Dutch UN troops had taken in the Muslims, the Serbs would not have attacked UN forces.  The Dutch troops "chickened" out and didn't do their jobs. They refused to take them in and forced these people back into unprotected areas where they were killed.    That's why The Hague found the Dutch guilty.  You see, it's so easy for you to blame America for stuff.  But when the shoe is on the other foot, you see just how hard it is to stay morally correct in a tough and challenging world.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Fake news, Slobodan. You should be ashamed of yourself, playing games over the backs of thousands of people killed. Disgusting...

 

The usual response from the left: feigned moral outrage when faced with inconvenient facts.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

The usual response from the left: feigned moral outrage when faced with inconvenient facts.

-1

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Ahmmm...

[jeremyrh]

I didn't know the Dutch were found criminally guilty by the Hague in letting 300 people get killed. 

Didn't you? It's not a secret, though maybe not reported in the US since you don't accept the jurisdiction of the ICC.

It's not so easy to make the right call when you're actually involved.  Much easier pointing fingers at America while you sit on your butt. 

Who is pointing fingers and who is sitting on their butts (apart from you, that is)?

[jeremyrh]

The usual response from the left

What does this have to do with "the left" ?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

What does this have to do with "the left" ?

Nothing. It's a transparent diversion tactic.

Cheers,
Bart

[RSL]

What does this have to do with "the left" ?

Jeremy, I can see from your picture that you're just a kid, but where are you? You're obviously absorbing the kind of political crap being taught in United States schools at the moment, so I'm curious.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Didn't you? It's not a secret, though maybe not reported in the US since you don't accept the jurisdiction of the ICC.

That's one way of not getting convicted yourself. Don't recognize the International Criminal Court, and prosecute whistleblowers.

So transparent.

Cheers,
Bart

[Rob C]

No one is excusing the Serbs.  But if the Dutch UN troops had taken in the Muslims, the Serbs would not have attacked UN forces.  The Dutch troops "chickened" out and didn't do their jobs. They refused to take them in and forced these people back into unprotected areas where they were killed.    That's why The Hague found the Dutch guilty.  You see, it's so easy for you to blame America for stuff.  But when the shoe is on the other foot, you see just how hard it is to stay morally correct in a tough and challenging world.

Alan, that has not answered the point about ignored, delayed military aid for the Dutch. Nobody seriously
believes that the requests did not get through to HQ.

You have simply opted to ignore it and hide behind your usual mantra of the world blaming America for everything. Your country, or however you care to define it, does not equate with the people supposedly running the foreign "interventions". Vietnam is one such classical example, where people here on this very forum, with personal experience, will tell you it was the politicians back home who fucked up on their behalf and brought about the indignity of the big boy getting a flea in his ear. The guys at the front have to follow orders, or we are back to the Middle Ages: robber barons, Christian mercenaries and assorted bows, arrows, swords and spears for hire. Where your politicians have not thought it through, they should follow the sage advice: when in doubt, do nowt.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Alan, that has not answered the point about ignored, delayed military aid for the Dutch. Nobody seriously
believes that the requests did not get through to HQ...

Nobody seriously believes that the Bosnian-Serb paramilitary army would have dared to attack and destroy the Dutch troops, which the West would have treated as an act of war, had they had the balls to hold their ground. But you have to have the balls. It much easier to second-guess others from a comfy armchair.

[RSL]

That's one way of not getting convicted yourself. Don't recognize the International Criminal Court, and prosecute whistleblowers.

So transparent.

Cheers,
Bart

Absolutely, Bart. You shouldn't ignore the ICC. After all, the judges on the International Criminal Court were appointed by whom. . .? Golly, must have been God.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, that has not answered the point about ignored, delayed military aid for the Dutch. Nobody seriously
believes that the requests did not get through to HQ.

You have simply opted to ignore it and hide behind your usual mantra of the world blaming America for everything. Your country, or however you care to define it, does not equate with the people supposedly running the foreign "interventions". Vietnam is one such classical example, where people here on this very forum, with personal experience, will tell you it was the politicians back home who fucked up on their behalf and brought about the indignity of the big boy getting a flea in his ear. The guys at the front have to follow orders, or we are back to the Middle Ages: robber barons, Christian mercenaries and assorted bows, arrows, swords and spears for hire. Where your politicians have not thought it through, they should follow the sage advice: when in doubt, do nowt.

I didn't find the Dutch guilty.   The Hague did.

[OmerV]

Nobody seriously believes that the Bosnian-Serb paramilitary army would have dared to attack and destroy the Dutch troops, which the West would have treated as an act of war, had they had the balls to hold their ground. But you have to have the balls. It much easier to second-guess others from a comfy armchair.

It was 1995 and yet that same paramilitary army obviously believed it could get away with the murder of 8,000. But they were rational enough to understand the consequences of attacking a lightly armed U.N. base?

That whole place was engulfed in madness.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Ron_Haviv_-_Massacre_in_Bijeljina.jpg

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

It was 1995 and yet that same paramilitary army obviously believed it could get away with the murder of 8,000. But they were rational enough to understand the consequences of attacking a lightly armed U.N. base?

That whole place was engulfed in madness....

Yes, madness that most civil wars are, including the American one. As for the first sentence, yes, you can get away with much more when you kill each other in a civil war than when you kill a single foreign soldier. Just ask the one million Tutsis in Rwanda. The world didn't blink.

As for your image, there were also whole Serbian villages eradicated and women raped as well, but the media wants you to believe only one side (Bosnian Serbs) was committing atrocities. It shall be noted that Bosnian Serbs were only 1/3 of the Bosnian population, i.e., outnumbered 2:1 by Muslims and Croats in the civil war.

[Rob C]

I didn't find the Dutch guilty.   The Hague did.

Red herring. Nobody said that you had.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Red herring. Nobody said that you had.

Sorry, Rob, you did say that:

... You have simply opted to ignore it and hide behind...

"It" being:

...the point about ignored, delayed military aid for the Dutch...

That "point" was not ignored by Alan, but by the court. If you accuse Alan of ignoring it (as you did) then you are implying he, Alan, also found the Dutch guilty. Simple logic, you can't have it both ways.