Another salute to Garry Winogrand

[RSL]

.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Gets the spirit nicely.

[RSL]

Thanks, Eric. Garry did a lot of stuff that few people grasp. Happily, John Szarkowski grasped it.

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Szarkowski had pretty good and eclectic tastes.
I first encountered Winogrand's work in my first workshop with Minor White. Minor showed lots of good photographers whose styles and subjects had nothing to do with Minor's own work, such as Garry, and even the real Street guys.

[Ivo_B]

Thanks, Eric. Garry did a lot of stuff that few people grasp. Happily, John Szarkowski grasped it.

Tell me something abut doing stuff that few peoples grasp.

[RSL]

Most people want art to be pretty, Ivo, or tell an easily accessible story. Garry's work doesn't do either.

[Rob C]

One day I'm going to be rich: I shall invent the clothes peg!

Rob

[RSL]

Tell me something abut doing stuff that few peoples grasp.

Ivo, I passed over this one too quickly. If you read my "Touching the Seer" you'll see a link to Garry's photograph "New Mexico 1957." Szarkowski used that picture on the cover of his book: Winogrand: Figments from the Real World. Few people grasp that picture. It's essentially ugly, but contains important information about (excuse the cliché) the human condition. That's the kind of stuff people turn away from. It's the same thing in poetry. People seem to like Eddie Guest's doggerel, but don't grasp great poetry like Dylan Thomas's "Fern Hill." Eddie's "It Takes a Heap 'O Livin' to Make a House a Home'" is superficial and easy to understand. "Fern Hill" doesn't let you "understand" in the usual meaning of that word, but if you let it speak to your unconscious, it gives you stuff that can be very important to you.

[Ivo_B]

Ivo, I passed over this one too quickly. If you read my "Touching the Seer" you'll see a link to Garry's photograph "New Mexico 1957." Szarkowski used that picture on the cover of his book: Winogrand: Figments from the Real World. Few people grasp that picture. It's essentially ugly, but contains important information about (excuse the cliché) the human condition. That's the kind of stuff people turn away from. It's the same thing in poetry. People seem to like Eddie Guest's doggerel, but don't grasp great poetry like Dylan Thomas's "Fern Hill." Eddie's "It Takes a Heap 'O Livin' to Make a House a Home'" is superficial and easy to understand. "Fern Hill" doesn't let you "understand" in the usual meaning of that word, but if you let it speak to your unconscious, it gives you stuff that can be very important to you.

You are kicking in an open door for me, Russ.

Is it possible that also you turn(ed) your head to easily from things you can't grasp?

Question: If you can grasp this kind of photography, why did we had discussions with negative connotation from your side under some of my work? And why is p.e. Eggleston considered as a nitwit?

I think this needs some clarification and I hope you will not slam the door with some of the old mantra's.

Ivo

[Rob C]

Ivo, I passed over this one too quickly. If you read my "Touching the Seer" you'll see a link to Garry's photograph "New Mexico 1957." Szarkowski used that picture on the cover of his book: Winogrand: Figments from the Real World. Few people grasp that picture. It's essentially ugly, but contains important information about (excuse the cliché) the human condition. That's the kind of stuff people turn away from. It's the same thing in poetry. People seem to like Eddie Guest's doggerel, but don't grasp great poetry like Dylan Thomas's "Fern Hill." Eddie's "It Takes a Heap 'O Livin' to Make a House a Home'" is superficial and easy to understand. "Fern Hill" doesn't let you "understand" in the usual meaning of that word, but if you let it speak to your unconscious, it gives you stuff that can be very important to you.

Not to frighten people away, but spiritual belief in a non-specific Creator helps with many of the problems we face in life. A life devoid of hope or limited to the here and now seems very unworthy of the time it takes to live it.

If there is something within us that yearns for this, then there has to be a grain of founding DNA, somewhere inside, doing its thing in making that desire so powerful.

Rob

[Rob C]

You are kicking in an open door for me, Russ.

Is it possible that also you turn(ed) your head to easily from things you can't grasp?

Question: If you can grasp this kind of photography, why did we had discussions with negative connotation from your side under some of my work? And why is p.e. Eggleston considered as a nitwit?

I think this needs some clarification and I hope you will not slam the door with some of the old mantra's.

Ivo

That's too easy: use your eyes.

[Ivo_B]

That's too easy: use your eyes.

No Rob. No.
I could reply back with: use your brains, but that is to easy.

[Ivo_B]

Not to frighten people away, but spiritual belief in a non-specific Creator helps with many of the problems we face in life. A life devoid of hope or limited to the here and now seems very unworthy of the time it takes to live it.

If there is something within us that yearns for this, then there has to be a grain of founding DNA, somewhere inside, doing its thing in making that desire so powerful.

Rob

We could have a very interesting conversation on this, I’m afraid my English is not good enough to convey my believes and understanding on this subject. 

[RSL]

That's too easy: use your eyes.

Rob's exactly right, Ivo. No, don't use your brains. Brains have to work in what I called "life reality" in "Touching the Seer" They have to think in terms of space and time, but there's more beyond -- that brains can't reach. Winogrand sometimes points in that "beyond" direction.

I haven't a clue who p.e. Eggleston is. Are you talking about William Eggleston, the photographer? If so, I"ll tell you that most of his stuff appears random to me. And I'll quickly admit that Winogrand did a lot of random stuff too, but in the midst of the crap there were some things that grab tight -- if you're willing to stick with it. Most of your own photography seems pretty random to me, but once in a while you come up with something that's understandable in a literal sense. But real art -- the kind that strikes your soul -- goes way beyond the literal sense.

I hope this is "some clarification."

[Ivo_B]

Rob's exactly right, Ivo. No, don't use your brains. Brains have to work in what I called "life reality" in "Touching the Seer" They have to think in terms of space and time, but there's more beyond -- that brains can't reach. Winogrand sometimes points in that "beyond" direction.

I haven't a clue who p.e. Eggleston is. Are you talking about William Eggleston, the photographer? If so, I"ll tell you that most of his stuff appears random to me. And I'll quickly admit that Winogrand did a lot of random stuff too, but in the midst of the crap there were some things that grab tight -- if you're willing to stick with it. Most of your own photography seems pretty random to me, but once in a while you come up with something that's understandable in a literal sense. But real art -- the kind that strikes your soul -- goes way beyond the literal sense.

I hope this is "some clarification."

No, it isn’t Russ.

It is not because something looks random to you, it is random.

I’m always surprised to read how (not only you) some so called connaisseurs seems unable to open their mind and try to understand what they find difficult to grasp.

It is strange to read how you advocate to look behind the obvious while you are not able to do it.

[RSL]

Well, as usual you're quick with assumptions but without any support, Ivo. I've seen your stuff. I know you're a professional, and I'll bet you do great weddings.

[Ivo_B]

Well, as usual you're quick with assumptions but without any support, Ivo. I've seen your stuff. I know you're a professional, and I'll bet you do great weddings.

Who’s quick with assumption?
Haha. I don’t do weddings, Russ.

Why don’t you give clear answer to the point.

‘I don’t want to answer’ is also fine.

[RSL]

What "point," Ivo?

[Ivo_B]

What "point," Ivo?

The incompréhensible one. 

[RSL]

Suspicions confirmed.