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Author Topic: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%  (Read 530 times)

James Clark

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 02:49:28 pm »

"Nikon sees huge drops in both sales value and sales volume, while Fujifilm and Sony see big increases"

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/nikon-sales-drop-15-fujifilm-sales-rise-20-year-on-year-in-japan?utm_content=bufferd0aad&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer_dcwfb&fbclid=IwAR3EJeZVKmlnbD4uHpPehj8YSma_f8ZhWNbTKKScEd8ZR1mThMjHE9-Q2lY

I just picked up an XT3 earlier this spring to replace my dying A7R (mark 1), and it's... different.  I'm not sure yet if I love or I hate it.   I can't decide if it's all in my head, and I just feel like a "pro" camera should be more than the XT3 is (whatever that means), or if I'm just out of my comfort zone with it.   
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 03:24:13 pm »

Hi,

I would guess that Nikon and Canon are selling into a mature market. Sony pretty much established upper end mirrorless and has a lot of momentum it uses to sell full frame gear at good prices,

So, Sony has found a good position in a sinking market, while I guess that buyers have some concerns about what directions Canon and Nikon are going.

In a year, the situation may be different... But right now it may be "Who dares, wins".

Best regards
Erik


"Nikon sees huge drops in both sales value and sales volume, while Fujifilm and Sony see big increases"

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/nikon-sales-drop-15-fujifilm-sales-rise-20-year-on-year-in-japan?utm_content=bufferd0aad&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer_dcwfb&fbclid=IwAR3EJeZVKmlnbD4uHpPehj8YSma_f8ZhWNbTKKScEd8ZR1mThMjHE9-Q2lY
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2019, 04:53:32 am »

I have a FUJI x-T2, X-T3, and a Canon 5D3.  Yes, Fuji is different, but I hardly use the 5D3 on grounds of size and weight and fewer pixels.  I now love the fujis and their lenses.  The 56 prime is great, the 35mm f2 is very small and gives very good results (for me).  The electronic shutter is very useful (e.g. when photographing people), and the burst rate excellent. For travel, I just take a body and the 18-55 and 55-200 in a small think tank or just in a small ruck sack.  I do take 2 spare batteries though.

I have steered clear of Sony as I am confused by their offerings and they seem to introduce new models at such a frequency that if I bought one it would be superseded very quickly.  There have been so many advances in APSC that I no longer feel the need for full frame.

Best wishes,

Jonathan 
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Jonathan in UK

DP

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 06:15:01 am »

"Nikon sees huge drops in both sales value and sales volume, while Fujifilm and Sony see big increases"

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/nikon-sales-drop-15-fujifilm-sales-rise-20-year-on-year-in-japan?utm_content=bufferd0aad&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer_dcwfb&fbclid=IwAR3EJeZVKmlnbD4uHpPehj8YSma_f8ZhWNbTKKScEd8ZR1mThMjHE9-Q2lY

BCN writes: “Fujifilm’s sales were boosted by the strong sales of the digital version Cheki “instax SQUARE” series.”

 ;D
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DP

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2019, 06:21:12 am »

I have steered clear of Sony as I am confused by their offerings and they seem to introduce new models at such a frequency that if I bought one it would be superseded very quickly. 

a person confused by just 4 FF offerings (not more than C & N have count-wise) - consumer-level (A7), video targeting (A7S), hight mp (A7R), sport (A9)  and suffering from GAS (as if the purchased camera will stop working immediately once the next iteration released)...   ;D
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Rob C

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 07:06:21 am »

One day, if they have not raced themselves into a premature death, the camera makers will realise that fratricide is not a good thing. Far better to accept that the film days offered a stable, fairly healthy state of production/sales equilibrium, where things lasted well and punters bought with confidence, not even thinking about depreciation.

It's bound to happen again, of course, when all the inconsequential bells and whistles have become common to all brands, and photographers - in the broader sense? - return to first principles and make photographs instead of complaints about why their equipment is "holding them back" from excellence that would otherwise most certainly be theirs.

:-)

James Clark

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 08:53:44 am »

I have a FUJI x-T2, X-T3, and a Canon 5D3.  Yes, Fuji is different, but I hardly use the 5D3 on grounds of size and weight and fewer pixels.  I now love the fujis and their lenses.  The 56 prime is great, the 35mm f2 is very small and gives very good results (for me).  The electronic shutter is very useful (e.g. when photographing people), and the burst rate excellent. For travel, I just take a body and the 18-55 and 55-200 in a small think tank or just in a small ruck sack.  I do take 2 spare batteries though.

I have steered clear of Sony as I am confused by their offerings and they seem to introduce new models at such a frequency that if I bought one it would be superseded very quickly.  There have been so many advances in APSC that I no longer feel the need for full frame.

Best wishes,

Jonathan

What do you think of the 2 vs the 3?  If I stay with the Fuji, the 2 just got a massive price drop and would be a great backup.. I think. Or maybe the H1?
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2019, 12:20:55 pm »

I do not think there is a huge difference between the X-T2 and 3.  The 3 is a bit better in many respects, so it comes down to budget vs requirements.  I bought the 3 to use with my primes, but in practice often find the 2 and 3 to be interchangeable; sometimes though it does depend on the use.  For travel I find the 2 is fine.  If I want just the extra edge then I use the 3. The controls are so similar, and I have customised the buttons the same so going from one to the other is a doddle.  I did use the 3 on silent shutter and high burst to photograph individual company staff as I could get them to relax and press the remote shutter and get several images in case they blinked without them realising, but could have done this with the 2.

As always, light can only get to the sensor through the lens and I like the size, weight and IQ of Fuji lenses.  I also like the film simulations when processing in LR. I am very pleased with recent A3+ (13x19") prints on 300gsm Matt paper using the 3.

The H1 does not interest me, bigger, heavier and lack of IBIS on the 2 and 3 does not constrain me.

As I wrote above it is down to budget and personal needs.

Best wishes,

Jonathan
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MattBurt

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 01:47:14 pm »

I just read this article from DSLRBodies.com and it's showing the following list of January through March sales across all major brands except Pentax (Ricoh) which is an interesting turn. Maybe their conservative approach will keep them going?

Quote
  • Canon down 23%
  • Sony down 7%
  • Nikon down 21%
  • Fujifilm down 3%
  • Olympus down 24%
  • Ricoh (Pentax) up 4%
  • Overall camera shipments (CIPA) were down 25% in dollars
  • Overall lens shipments (CIPA) were down 13% in dollars
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2019, 02:35:37 pm »

Fuji and Sony the only manufacturers to see revenue growth. Fuji 0,6% and Sony 14,5%. Considerable drops for all the others. That doesn’t speak of profitability obviously.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2019, 08:19:23 pm »

As a pro I often shoot with a system a couple generations behind.  Admittedly I work with a medium format system that was not cheap, but I bought the digital back used and do not foresee trading it in for at least a 3 more years, or until the P1 IQ4 150s I can get as pro-owned.  Most pros I know are in the same boat; they work with older systems and use them until they are a few generation behind and have paid for themselves a few times over. 

From an image creation stand point, we recognize that it is the light and composition that makes the image, not the camera.  So what is the point of buying the latest and greatest each and every time a new system comes out.  There is none.  We have always left that up the hobbyists.  Not that I have ill feelings towards the hobbyists; without them the market would dry up fairly quick and innovation would stagnate. 

With that being said, I think we are now at a point where even the hobbyists see that pretty much any camera made in the last 5 years is a damn fine camera.  So what is the point in upgrading?  Mirrorless, sure, but do you really need it? 

I think as time goes on, the increase in IQ from the next generation of sensors is going to continue to slow.  We have reached and past the inflection point.  This is only going to decrease camera sales.  I have to wonder where the market will go. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 08:24:26 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2019, 10:15:22 pm »

As a pro I often shoot with a system a couple generations behind.  Admittedly I work with a medium format system that was not cheap, but I bought the digital back used and do not foresee trading it in for at least a 3 more years, or until the P1 IQ4 150s I can get as pro-owned.  Most pros I know are in the same boat; they work with older systems and use them until they are a few generation behind and have paid for themselves a few times over. 

From an image creation stand point, we recognize that it is the light and composition that makes the image, not the camera.  So what is the point of buying the latest and greatest each and every time a new system comes out.  There is none.  We have always left that up the hobbyists.  Not that I have ill feelings towards the hobbyists; without them the market would dry up fairly quick and innovation would stagnate. 

With that being said, I think we are now at a point where even the hobbyists see that pretty much any camera made in the last 5 years is a damn fine camera.  So what is the point in upgrading?  Mirrorless, sure, but do you really need it? 

I think as time goes on, the increase in IQ from the next generation of sensors is going to continue to slow.  We have reached and past the inflection point.  This is only going to decrease camera sales.  I have to wonder where the market will go.

I shoot m4/3s for my own fun and only changed from 4/3s because Olympus stopped developing that line. Panasonic and Fuji didn't have a large installed user base to worry about, nor really did Olympus, so I sort of understand why they went mirrorless, insofar as it's cheaper to assemble (I'm told).

What I don't quite understand is why "full-frame" Canikon users are changing from D-SLRs to the new mirrorless models. What is the perceived user advantage? If Olympus had continued with their D-SLR 4/3s line, I would probably have stuck with it. I like some things about mirrorless, having the histogram before taking the pic for instance, but I got by without those things before and would not have spent the money changing systems.

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jeremyrh

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2019, 01:29:39 am »

What I don't quite understand is why "full-frame" Canikon users are changing from D-SLRs to the new mirrorless models. What is the perceived user advantage?
Size and weight, especially for travel. I can get FF DSLR image quality for u43 equipment size (obviously not quite true, but close enough for me)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2019, 08:47:20 am »

What I don't quite understand is why "full-frame" Canikon users are changing from D-SLRs to the new mirrorless models. What is the perceived user advantage? If Olympus had continued with their D-SLR 4/3s line, I would probably have stuck with it. I like some things about mirrorless, having the histogram before taking the pic for instance, but I got by without those things before and would not have spent the money changing systems.
I had a Nikon D300 for a number of years and it was a solid performer.  I upgraded to a D810 when the price dropped just before the new model was introduced.  It was a fine camera but as I have aged, I wanted something lighter to travel with.  I bought a Z6 earlier this year and have been very happy with it.  the 24-70 zoom lens is great and really the only one I need for travel.  I have the adapter for the legacy Nikor lenses I still have.  I think the sales drop across the board is a result of improved cell phone cameras.  I printed a Google Pixel image my wife took on a trip to New Zealand and it was really amazing.  I didn't have much editing at all to do in LR before sending it the the printer and enlarged it to 11x17 to hang on the wall.  Certainly, one probably cannot print larger than this but for 95% of folks using cell phones this is likely all they would want, if they want a print.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2019, 09:20:05 am »

I shoot m4/3s for my own fun and only changed from 4/3s because Olympus stopped developing that line. Panasonic and Fuji didn't have a large installed user base to worry about, nor really did Olympus, so I sort of understand why they went mirrorless, insofar as it's cheaper to assemble (I'm told).

What I don't quite understand is why "full-frame" Canikon users are changing from D-SLRs to the new mirrorless models. What is the perceived user advantage? If Olympus had continued with their D-SLR 4/3s line, I would probably have stuck with it. I like some things about mirrorless, having the histogram before taking the pic for instance, but I got by without those things before and would not have spent the money changing systems.

To be honest, I think I spoke a little too soon on the mirrorless systems and whether or not it is worth getting.  I was thinking from an handheld perspective and that one already owned a relatively recent 35mm DSLR.  Personally the bodies of the mirrorless systems are just too small to be comfortable in the hands IMO.  Not to mention on a image quality perspective, the increases have been less and less dramatic.  If you cant take a good picture with any camera that has been on the market for the last 5 years, it has nothing to do with the camera.  So the question is, are there any real advantage to switching over if you don't need to?  If you already own a good 35mm, only ever shoot handheld and have some money to burn, I would suggest buy stocks instead. 

But I think the real advantage of the mirrorless systems are the modularity of them, especially the Sony, just like with a digital back. 

When I started out 12 years ago, if you needed tilt/swing and shift, you pretty much had two options, the Canon system with the t/s lenses or a digital back on a technical camera.  The Canon system was an okay option, but not great by any stretch.  At the time, they only had one good t/s lens, the 24mm, and the IQ of the files were not great, but the system was only about $6k or so.  The digital back on a tech camera was a much better option, better lenses and more of them, much better IQ, more movements and tilt/swing was great too.  But the systems are around $40K, so very prohibitive for most people who are not either rich or a professional that can secure a loan.  Today, the Canon lenses are still far behind the technical camera lenses, so the new mirrorless now provides a third option that gets you almost to the quality of DB system.  Since there is no mirror box, you can use a mirrorless camera on a bellow camera, allowing for the full advantages of tilt/swing and shift, but without the $40K price tag.  Sure the bellows camera will add on another $4K to $5K, but that is still pretty reasonable for most pros and advanced hobbyists.  Additionally, many schools dropped the large format courses since film was getting to be too much of a hassle and buying multiple digital backs and bellow cameras was too expensive (many due to the backs).  But now I can see the mirrorless bringing that back. 

Another advantage is that you can pretty much use any lens ever made on these cameras, so long as you can get the right mount.  Recently I saw portraits shot with a Schneider 135mm projection lens with a fixed f/2 aperture.  Someone had a custom barrel made for the lens so it could be focused and mounted to a camera.  The pics were really nice; super sharp where in focus but with almost no depth of field. 

So for these options, I see mirrorless being a real great system.  But for someone who does the typical handheld hobbyists shots that already owns a camera, I would suggest sticking with your current system until it breaks, then look into mirrorless. 

Insofar as being able to see the histogram while you are composing, I would advise against pay any attention to it.  Often, if you shoot for a perfect histogram you end up having a boring image.  Highlights don't always need to be recoverable, and shadows don't always need to be recorded.  Although I think everyone here would agree with this, photographers are tech heads in general.  Giving yourself just another means to satisfy your techiness will just get in the way of your creativeness.  Kind of the same thing when people review at every image they capture. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 09:23:30 am by JoeKitchen »
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Joe Kitchen
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Nikon sales drop 15%, Fujifilm sales rise 20%
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2019, 10:43:47 am »

I changed to mirrorless because my Canon was well old the lenses a generation or two behind. At the time I didn’t see it as an upgrade. Just the normal pain in butt stuff a Pro has to put up. Not that font of changing cameras. It’s very disruptive if you are busy.

Anyway nothing Canon had on offer really excited me. I have never really got along with Nikon interface, weird I know. Decided I kind of liked what was happening with Sony. Three years ago it seemed a bit of a risk. Now I’m all in. Surprising even to me. I’m not surprised they are doing relatively well.

Oddly enough for me when I’m out on a shoot I will sometimes get my head out of a studio and run into a youngster on a shoot and their reaction is interesting. How did an old guy like you figure out Sony was the way to go kind of sums it up. Perhaps it’s a generational thing.

Curious to see how this all pans out. Anyway I am set for the next 4 years I think. After that we will see. I might be dead. If not I will change kit again. Perhaps stay with Sony. Perhaps not.
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