brand new canon 4000 printer - canvas black ink?

[sgwrx]

hello, we just got a new canon 4000 printer at work.  we have canon artistic satin canvas and are able to print. but when i softproof it in photoshop there is very little difference between artistic satin and artistic canvas.  plus, i've printed a few pieces and we are seeing that Matte black ink is lower whereas the Photo black ink hasn't changed.

so my question is, i thought the satin canvas used photo black ink?  i asked the rep about it before we got the printer and canvas.

also, i have no access to any software other than a few settings in the driver when i print to this printer and there's no option for choosing the black.  although the IT guy said he set the correct paper when he loaded the satin canvas - at first it wasn't there but then we had to update the software and it showed up.

[I.T. Supplies]

That is correct.  If you use a satin/gloss media and "choose" the Artistic Satin Canvas setting (and media type), it will use the PBK.  However, you can choose Satin Canvas on the printer (media type), but if you choose Artistic Matte on the computer settings, it will use the MBK because you're having the computer settings be the option sent to the printer.  Just make sure both computer and printer media types are the same for it to use the proper black.

Technically, the MBK may not look that great on media with a sheen and "could" be a little watery looking, but it depends on the media.  The only other option you have to make sure you use the proper black on a media type is via the MCT (Media Configuration Tool) that you can download from Canon's site.  It gives you profiles that you don't see on the printer (and computer end) and you can also remove what you may not want; as well as create custom media types.

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/details/professional-large-format-printers/professional-photo-fine-art/imageprograf-pro-4000/imageprograf-pro-4000?subtab=downloads-software

Ink usage will be based on the images (how much of each color they contain) as well as your quality setting.  The better the quality option, the more ink will be used on the print.

So, to make sure you use Photo Black on Satin Canvas, verify you selected Artistic Satin Canvas on printer media type as well as computer settings so it uses the PBK.

[sgwrx]

thanks! that's what i thought.  in our printer we have ArtSatin Canvas and then in the printer settings accessed via photoshop, i have artistic satin canvas.  but we are still printing with matte black. the only thing i'm basing that on is that the softproof (using artistic satin canvas as profile which is installed on my machine) is extremely similar between the two in photoshop and the fact that the ink levels show we've used a lot of matte black.  i don't have access to media config tool so i'm really out of the loop. my guess is that since artistic satin canvas is listed as both Mk and Pk on canon's website (some type of media guide i found), we'd have to set which black it uses in the media configuration tool.

thanks!

[Dan Wells]

That's an odd canvas! I've never heard of a canvas using PBK... I suppose that a Satin canvas might, though.

[Panagiotis]

hello, we just got a new canon 4000 printer at work.  we have canon artistic satin canvas and are able to print. but when i softproof it in photoshop there is very little difference between artistic satin and artistic canvas.  plus, i've printed a few pieces and we are seeing that Matte black ink is lower whereas the Photo black ink hasn't changed.

so my question is, i thought the satin canvas used photo black ink?  i asked the rep about it before we got the printer and canvas.

also, i have no access to any software other than a few settings in the driver when i print to this printer and there's no option for choosing the black.  although the IT guy said he set the correct paper when he loaded the satin canvas - at first it wasn't there but then we had to update the software and it showed up.

Hi,
all the "Canvas" media types on the PRO-4000, which are:

Canvas
Canvas Matte
Canon Artistic Satin Canvas
Canon Artistic Matte Canvas

use both black inks (MBK/PBK) simultaneously.

You can always check which black ink a media type uses with the Canon Media Configuration Tool. I did that for all the "Canvas" media types and I include here the screenshots:

[sgwrx]

That's an odd canvas! I've never heard of a canvas using PBK... I suppose that a Satin canvas might, though.

yes, in the media guide i found online it lists it as PBK and MBK.  the canvas has a white coating of sorts, though i think they all might have some type of coating? and it's definitely a reflective surface. glossy but not totally gloss!

it discusses various options as well for overcoming the possibility of "flake" from the MBK. but that even confuses me because when i asked our IT guy to look at the media config tool at his desk, we saw that something called "special 1" was a downloaded media option plus it had a different profile name - and it's supposed to use 160% photo black. but i have no way to softproof that because the profile never updated on my machine but it should be on the server that the IT guy set it up on, but he won't look for it. so again i'm in limbo.

[sgwrx]

Hi,
all the "Canvas" media types on the PRO-4000, which are:

Canvas
Canvas Matte
Canon Artistic Satin Canvas
Canon Artistic Matte Canvas

use both black inks (MBK/PBK) simultaneously.

You can always check which black ink a media type uses with the Canon Media Configuration Tool. I did that for all the "Canvas" media types and I include here the screenshots:

thanks Panagiotis.  wow no way! so they will use both simultaneously!  that's crazy.  OK. that helps clear some things up! 

here's the data i found on the webs for satin canvas: https://support.usa.canon.com/library/ij/Manual/All/PRO-4000/EN/PIF/pif_4000f_0050_3rc.html

referring back to the "special 1" - "special 10" options, referenced here: https://support.usa.canon.com/library/ij/Manual/All/PRO-4000/EN/PIF/pif_4000f_3001_3rs.html for special 1, and you can use the arrow buttons to navigate through special 10.

so it looks to me though, that special 1 would NOT be recommended as it's listed as a THIN paper here: https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART108782&cat=IMAGEPROGRAF_W8400PG&actp=LIST

[Panagiotis]

yes, in the media guide i found online it lists it as PBK and MBK.  the canvas has a white coating of sorts, though i think they all might have some type of coating? and it's definitely a reflective surface. glossy but not totally gloss!

it discusses various options as well for overcoming the possibility of "flake" from the MBK. but that even confuses me because when i asked our IT guy to look at the media config tool at his desk, we saw that something called "special 1" was a downloaded media option plus it had a different profile name - and it's supposed to use 160% photo black. but i have no way to softproof that because the profile never updated on my machine but it should be on the server that the IT guy set it up on, but he won't look for it. so again i'm in limbo.

The "Special" media types are used to quickly try and choose the appropriate ink load settings without the need to create and edit custom media types. Special 1-5 is PBK black, special 6-10 is MBK black. Both sets with incremental ink load. More here:

https://ugp01.c-ij.com/ij/webmanual/Manual/All/PRO-4000/EN/PIF/pif_4000f_0000_2rs_eng.html

[sgwrx]

The "Special" media types are used to quickly try and choose the appropriate ink load settings without the need to create and edit custom media types. Special 1-5 is PBK black, special 6-10 is MBK black. Both sets with incremental ink load. More here:

https://ugp01.c-ij.com/ij/webmanual/Manual/All/PRO-4000/EN/PIF/pif_4000f_0000_2rs_eng.html

thank you again!  so i think the long and short of it is that since we will only be using the canon media (for canvas and non canvas) we can leave everything alone really.  there's no way our IT will let me create custom profiles or have access to the software/hardware to make changes.  and that's probably OK.  i guess i expected darker blacks since it was supposed to be a PBK capable paper - but for now it's just using what it's supposed to a mix of both.

on a side note, i LOVE big prints. man i've been thinking about replacing my epson 3880 for a while now, something bigger at home!  i don't know if 36x24 would be enough ha.

[Panagiotis]

thank you again!  so i think the long and short of it is that since we will only be using the canon media (for canvas and non canvas) we can leave everything alone really.  there's no way our IT will let me create custom profiles or have access to the software/hardware to make changes.  and that's probably OK.  i guess i expected darker blacks since it was supposed to be a PBK capable paper - but for now it's just using what it's supposed to a mix of both.

on a side note, i LOVE big prints. man i've been thinking about replacing my epson 3880 for a while now, something bigger at home!  i don't know if 36x24 would be enough ha.

Yes use the appropriate Canon media type and ICC profile for the paper/canvas you are using. As a general note PRO-4000 is an excellent printer capable of very deep blacks. I am using it for about 6 months now and I am very satisfied from it.

[sgwrx]

one last question on this, so we are using the correct icc profile, the correct media settings on the printer and from within the print settings in photoshop.  the very first print we did, one of our guys stretched it on a wood frame and his fingers were pretty black!  he said the ink smudged too.

HOWEVER subsequent 7 prints, seemed very OK.  although this morning, our IT guy came up and told me that if he rubs his thumb on the corner of one of the prints, he gets ink on his thumb.  he showed me his thumb and it was not even close to what happened with the very first print we did.

my question then is: in general, i always though canvas prints should be spray coated for something just like this situation where it may "rub off" a bit when handling.  again, the very first print was horrible, and i suspect that was not the correct media type in the printer or from within photoshop. the subsequent prints were very OK

thanks!

[Panagiotis]

one last question on this, so we are using the correct icc profile, the correct media settings on the printer and from within the print settings in photoshop.  the very first print we did, one of our guys stretched it on a wood frame and his fingers were pretty black!  he said the ink smudged too.

HOWEVER subsequent 7 prints, seemed very OK.  although this morning, our IT guy came up and told me that if he rubs his thumb on the corner of one of the prints, he gets ink on his thumb.  he showed me his thumb and it was not even close to what happened with the very first print we did.

my question then is: in general, i always though canvas prints should be spray coated for something just like this situation where it may "rub off" a bit when handling.  again, the very first print was horrible, and i suspect that was not the correct media type in the printer or from within photoshop. the subsequent prints were very OK

thanks!

Never happened to me but I generally leave the prints to dry at least a day before I touch them. You can check which media type you have used for the problematic print looking at the entries (the print history) in the Accounting Manager Software. In order to find the specific entry you have to remember the date and time of the printjob and/or the name of the printed file.

[sgwrx]

that's great!  i will have a look. thanks!  PS - the prints look great!  it is canvas so that is a change from photoblack i'm used to at home, but i do really like them!