Counting down...

[Rob C]

Documents such as those mentioned in the article should be kept off site in a secret location and encrypted so that a raid of headquarters would be unsuccessful.

Yes, you have a point. Yet, by the very act of making such an investigation, the police are signalling that if there is smoke there is usually quite a lot of fire down below.

I'm in two minds about whistle-blowing: if it endangers spies (ours) or covert operations that some bleeding hearts may find politically objectionable but are essential for our greater good, then I have my doubts about lifting up the lid. I have no sympathy for wikileaks, for example. However, where things such as corruption in government, local or national are concerned, go for it! Those using public office for personal gain - beyond salary, obviously - need to be confronted and dealt the penalties they deserve. In essence, they are screwing us all.

Rob

[JoeKitchen]

This again. I don't suppose Cuba's economy has suffered at all from being besieged by a superpower a hop, skip and a jump away, has it?

Besieged, as in "surrounded by armed forces aiming to capture it or force surrender." 

Although JFK did attempt a take over at the beginning of his term (one that failed misserably due directing to him), I don't remember Cuba ever being besieged.  Even the JFK's attempt was a far cry from the country being surrounded. 

Insofar as the embargo, the USA makes up only about 20% of the world's market.  That leave a whooping 80% for Cuba to sell to.  In addition, getting Cuban products in the country has always been fairly easy.  Cuban cigars have been shipped here for decades now and they almost always get through customs. 

Anyway, the point, which you clearly missed, was that just because a population is well educated does not mean they will be better off. 

[Rob C]

Besieged, as in "surrounded by armed forces aiming to capture it or force surrender." 

Although JFK did attempt a take over at the beginning of his term (one that failed misserably due directing to him), I don't remember Cuba ever being besieged.  Even the JFK's attempt was a far cry from the country being surrounded. 

Insofar as the embargo, the USA makes up only about 20% of the world's market.  That leave a whopping 80% for Cuba to sell to.  In addition, getting Cuban products in the country has always been fairly easy.  Cuban cigars have been shipped here for decades now and they almost always get through customs. 

Anyway, the point, which you clearly missed, was that just because a population is well educated does not mean they will be better off.

Your last paragraph is applicable everywhere. I had a pretty good education and it was career choices that counted far more than did education. Elect for self-employment, especially in the arts, and you should have a big bank account before you even think of it. You might get lucky, you might not, and yeah, I still have huge faith in luck playing many a decisive hand on one's behalf, both for good as for bad.

Is it difficult to understand that a giant next door, one who treats you with political loathing, can only expect the same in return? Kennedy did the only thing he could have done with his blockade of those missile ships. Had he done nothing, the USSR would have been right in there with no chance of ever being moved away. Look at Crimea...

It's another aspect of Trump's poor foreign policy: he sticks his undiplomatic nose into British politics whilst a guest of the state and the Queen in London, telling the world which replacement candidate for May he favours, and that we should get out of Europe as quickly as possible! Apart from the diplomatic no no, he fails to grasp that the weaker we leave Europe the easier it is for a resurgent Russia to expand further west. Leaving Europe certainly does weaken it, as all of those countries readily tell anyone who listens. In return, Britain too, is the weaker for it. What a man! What with all the stuff about Russian interference in his election, his wanting to open an easier expansion route westwards for that power into Europe, you gotta wonder where his loyalty lies.

(By the same token, when Corbyn can't make himself come out and say that Brexit is a bad deal, period, despite his party saying pretty much that by the way it voted in recent hot events, you are forced into wondering just how much of the Russian stooge we might have here.)

In a world which is up to its nostrils in poop, nobody needs an idiot standing up making unnecessary waves.

[JoeKitchen]

Your last paragraph is applicable everywhere. I had a pretty good education and it was career choices that counted far more than did education. Elect for self-employment, especially in the arts, and you should have a big bank account before you even think of it. You might get lucky, you might not, and yeah, I still have huge faith in luck playing many a decisive hand on one's behalf, both for good as for bad.

Is it difficult to understand that a giant next door, one who treats you with political loathing, can only expect the same in return? Kennedy did the only thing he could have done with his blockade of those missile ships. Had he done nothing, the USSR would have been right in there with no chance of ever being moved away. Look at Crimea...

It's another aspect of Trump's poor foreign policy: he sticks his undiplomatic nose into British politics whilst a guest of the state and the Queen in London, telling the world which replacement candidate for May he favours, and that we should get out of Europe as quickly as possible! Apart from the diplomatic no no, he fails to grasp that the weaker we leave Europe the easier it is for a resurgent Russia to expand further west. Leaving Europe certainly does weaken it, as all of those countries readily tell anyone who listens. In return, Britain too, is the weaker for it. What a man! What with all the stuff about Russian interference in his election, his wanting to open an easier expansion route westwards for that power into Europe, you gotta wonder where his loyalty lies.

(By the same token, when Corbyn can't make himself come out and say that Brexit is a bad deal, period, despite his party saying pretty much that by the way it voted in recent hot events, you are forced into wondering just how much of the Russian stooge we might have here.)

In a world which is up to its nostrils in poop, nobody needs an idiot standing up making unnecessary waves.

Rob, you and I are talking about two different events here.  I agree with what JFK did with the Cuban missile crisis.

I, however, was talking about the failed invasion of Cuba with the attempt to over throw Castro that took place at the beginning of JFK's term, which was an abject failure on his part. 

[Rob C]

Rob, you and I are talking about two different events here.  I agree with what JFK did with the Cuban missile crisis.

I, however, was talking about the failed invasion of Cuba with the attempt to over throw Castro that took place at the beginning of JFK's term, which was an abject failure on his part.

Oh, then we are in tune, which is a rare event for me.

:-)

[jeremyrh]

Jeremy, since your age is N/A you're obviously too young to remember what Cuba was like before the Castros.

Obviously it was heaven on earth. Which is how a popular revolution was able to succeed, right?

[jeremyrh]

Rob, you and I are talking about two different events here.  I agree with what JFK did with the Cuban missile crisis.

I, however, was talking about the failed invasion of Cuba with the attempt to over throw Castro that took place at the beginning of JFK's term, which was an abject failure on his part.

Failure in that the invasion was repelled? Self-evidently. The military goal was not achieved. What greater goal would have been served by its success is another issue.

[JoeKitchen]

Failure in that the invasion was repelled? Self-evidently. The military goal was not achieved. What greater goal would have been served by its success is another issue.

Well of course it was repelled, but not because Castro was so good or some military genius.  (That was evident from how Castro took over Cuba in the first place.  Remember, Castro and his very very small force did not get rid of Batista.  Batista choose to leave because he knew the USA would no longer support him militarily, and the unrest of the people, which was a separate occurrence from Castro's "invasion," albeit at the same time, was getting precarious.  When he left, this created a power vacuum that Castro was lucky enough to be close enough to fill, and since the Batista's military and police were so demoralized at this point, they provide no resistance.  Also, remember Castro was not the Cuban people's first and most beloved choose, that was Camilo Cienfuegos (or at least to those in and around Havana), whom Castro had executed at sea so as to take control.  Camilo Cienfuegos was also a capitalist, which put him at odds with Raul Castro, and did not want to implement socialism.  However I digress.)

JFK blundered the whole thing is three ways.  First, he delayed the invasion.  Actually he initially cancelled it, but then reimplemented it, which for all intents and purposes was delaying it.  This gave more time to Castro's spy network (something Castro was actually very good at) to detecting an invasion was imminent.  Second, JFK changed the invasion point to one that was much less strategic and did so without enough time to train the Cubans involved in the invasion on the new point nor relay this information to those in Cuba who would assist.  Last, the invasion was scheduled for 1 PM Cuban time, and the USA was going to supply air support.  However, air support was coming from Central America and no one in Kennedy's war department took into account the time difference.  So air support showed up at 1 PM their time, which was 3 PM Cuban time. 

What great goal would have been achieved?  Well we cant say for sure the Cubans would be better off if Castro was overthrown that day, although I feel that would have been the case.  But we can say the missile crisis would never have happened.  Also, since JFK ran on his military service and implied he would be a good wartime commander and chief, this blunder caused him to look for an opportunity to save face.  That opportunity came in Vietnam; JFK actually used his failure in Cuba to politically justify sending troops to Vietnam for fear that if he did not have some military success he would not be reelected.  This has been documented. 

[RSL]

Obviously it was heaven on earth. Which is how a popular revolution was able to succeed, right?

It was a long way from heaven on earth, but it was a hell of a lot better than it was post-Castro.

[jeremyrh]

It was a long way from heaven on earth, but it was a hell of a lot better than it was post-Castro.

That would probably depend on where in each society you fit, no?

[RSL]

That would probably depend on where in each society you fit, no?

Absolutely. If you're an inside member of the dictatorship you've got it made until the next revolution. But if you're a poor sod out on the farm or inside the city, you're screwed.

[jeremyrh]

Absolutely. If you're an inside member of the dictatorship you've got it made until the next revolution. But if you're a poor sod out on the farm or inside the city, you're screwed.

Whereas the poor sods in Batista time had a life of luxury. Got it.

[RSL]

Whereas the poor sods in Batista time had a life of luxury. Got it.

No. But they had a better life than they have now. Yes, Batista was a crooked politician. What else is new. How about your politicians over there in N/A? Are they saints?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

A tale of two cities:

[degrub]

got the point, but at least use the commercial district from 1950 for Sing'. bit misleading.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

got the point, but at least use the commercial district from 1950 for Sing'. bit misleading.

Feel free to contribute.

Even from my last visit in 2001, downtown Singapore has changed dramatically (for the better).

[JoeKitchen]

Whereas the poor sods in Batista time had a life of luxury. Got it.

Although Batista, in his 2nd rein, was illegitimate, Cuba at the time was recovering from its great mistake of investing nearly its entire economy into sugar in the early 1900s.  During the 50s, Cuba was transferring to a modern economy, doing very well at it, and it's "working" workers were the 8th best paid in the world. 

In the hemisphere at the time, it was (per capita, that includes everyone) the 5th highest paid, 3rd longest life expectancy, 2nd in rate of car ownership.  They had a better literacy rate then any other island nation, and a thriving middle class on par with the USA.  The cosmopolitain areas, especially Havana, were better off then most other cosmopolitain areas in Europe.  Havana was a glittering modern city during the 50s. 

Cuba was considerably more well off then what we are lead to believe by the Castros. 

Now, unfortunately, racism was a bigger issue in Cuba then in the USA, and those who were black had it real bad.  This constituted much of the poor and a civil rights movement had not started yet.  Additionally, those living in the rural sugar plantation country were also very bad off, especially if their main source of income was harvesting sugar (which only took place 4 months a year).  Being so rural, it was also difficult, just logistically, to get proper medical support to them.  Also, Cuba had no public education system, which added to the problem.  However, just like during the early part of the 1900s in the USA, there were many institutions that provided help to the poor.  Many private hospitals gave medical help to the poor.  Things were getting better and progressing, just like had in our country.

Castro ruined all this.  He was able to cut inequality though by making everyone equally as poor. 

[32BT]

A tale of two cities:

So, that indicates that people in city 1 are happy people, content with spending quality time amongst family and friends, as opposed to city 2 where enough is very apparently never enough, lots of unhappy folks there unsustainably burning their way through deplete-able resources, until mental break down.

Fortunately they have very good healthcare services in city 2. State-funded no less...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

So, that indicates that people in city 1 are happy people...

Feel free to move to Havana, in pursuit of happiness.

[32BT]

Feel free to move to Havana, in pursuit of happiness.

Addicted to luxuries?

Hope you have enough cash stashed somewhere safe. For your retirement. You don't expect any social favors from your government, or do you?