Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8   Go Down

Author Topic: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...  (Read 6293 times)

petermfiore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2592
    • Peter Fiore Fine Art
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2019, 12:56:40 pm »

We are once again encountering the distinction that I described long time ago as between phtotograhers trying to create art and artists which happen to be using photography as a medium. The former are much better known, respected, and emulated by the LuLa crowd. The latter, not so much. But the curators and artsy crowd apparently knows them well.

That's the difference between commercial art and fine art....always will be.

Peter

elliot_n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1205
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #101 on: May 13, 2019, 01:48:37 pm »

It is perhaps difficult to get a take on Jeff Wall because his practice has many strands and each picture has its own internal logic – in contrast to the Dusseldorf photographers, who often photographed the same thing over and over again. Yet anyone familiar with Wall's work will see many tropes reappearing in the work of Stephen Waddell (whom I believe studied under Wall).

As Lula members have a thing for street photography, they might be interested in Wall's innovative use of a large format camera to create staged street photographs ('Mimic' is one of his best-known photographs):

https://www.americansuburbx.com/2016/06/evocations-of-the-everyday-the-street-pictures-of-jeff-wall-2009.html

(I haven't been able to glean whether Stephen Waddell's pictures are staged or found. I like the idea that they're found, but the styling of the sunflower girl looks too good to be true.)
Logged

amolitor

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 607
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #102 on: May 13, 2019, 02:21:08 pm »

"Mimic" is one of those things that perfectly illustrates the sort of un-deft hand I mentioned earlier. Wall can ramble on about mimesis all he wants, but at the end of the day if you simply look at the picture, it reads easily and with a bit of a clunk. I agree with the politics, but find it an ungracious expression of them.

Contrast with "Dead Soldiers Talk" which is still highly charged, but treats its politics with a far defter hand. There is room for interpretation. The general thrust is clear, but to my eye it feels un-clunky.

Contrast with Stieglitz "The Steerage" which makes almost the same point, but again with grace, with a deft hand.

The ability to consistently make work that treads the extremely narrow path between it reads and ... but not clunkily, with a thud is what separates the great from the, well, not great.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #103 on: May 13, 2019, 02:29:59 pm »

It is perhaps difficult to get a take on Jeff Wall because his practice has many strands and each picture has its own internal logic – in contrast to the Dusseldorf photographers, who often photographed the same thing over and over again. Yet anyone familiar with Wall's work will see many tropes reappearing in the work of Stephen Waddell (whom I believe studied under Wall).

As Lula members have a thing for street photography, they might be interested in Wall's innovative use of a large format camera to create staged street photographs ('Mimic' is one of his best-known photographs):

https://www.americansuburbx.com/2016/06/evocations-of-the-everyday-the-street-pictures-of-jeff-wall-2009.html

(I haven't been able to glean whether Stephen Waddell's pictures are staged or found. I like the idea that they're found, but the styling of the sunflower girl looks too good to be true.)


Thank you for that link; I literally couldn't finish it.

It just exemplifies everything that I have come to hate about photography, the people who sell and promote it. It's an emptyness and a fraud that depends on gigantism to pretend a validity. Like they say, if you are going to scam, scam big!

I don't think I'm going to read anything ever again about any of those people. I'm out of this one.

Rob

elliot_n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1205
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #104 on: May 13, 2019, 02:46:01 pm »

Quote
"Mimic" is one of those things that perfectly illustrates the sort of un-deft hand I mentioned earlier. Wall can ramble on about mimesis all he wants, but at the end of the day if you simply look at the picture, it reads easily and with a bit of a clunk. I agree with the politics, but find it an ungracious expression of them.

Contrast with "Dead Soldiers Talk" which is still highly charged, but treats its politics with a far defter hand. There is room for interpretation. The general thrust is clear, but to my eye it feels un-clunky.

Contrast with Stieglitz "The Steerage" which makes almost the same point, but again with grace, with a deft hand.

The ability to consistently make work that treads the extremely narrow path between it reads and ... but not clunkily, with a thud is what separates the great from the, well, not great.


I prefer his very simple (less 'readable') pictures. For example the two 'Diagonal Compositions' here:

https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/exhibition/jeff-wall/jeff-wall-room-guide/jeff-wall-room-guide-room-5

I agree that a lot of his work is 'clunky', though to my eyes 'Dead Troops Talk' is clunky, whilst 'Mimic' isn't. For me, clunkiness manifests when the staging is over-elaborate (Crewdson does nothing for me).

Stephen Waddell's work, whilst similar to Wall's, seems to have a lighter touch, which I find appealing. It feels less cooked.
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2088

elliot_n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1205
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #106 on: May 13, 2019, 02:56:49 pm »

Someone want to try their hand at explaining in plain English what makes these photographs remarkable?

I like them because they're not remarkable.

I like some of your pictures for the same reason (the last 'Nashville' image, the first six 'Shadows' images).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 03:07:46 pm by elliot_n »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16910
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #108 on: May 13, 2019, 03:12:40 pm »

We are talking about different worlds here. Like Venn diagrams that barely touch each other, let alone intersect.

elliot_n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1205
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #109 on: May 13, 2019, 03:20:51 pm »

We are talking about different worlds here. Like Venn diagrams that barely touch each other, let alone intersect.

I don't think so – though I know what you mean :)

I was just looking a Faberryman's website, and he speaks of being informed by the work of the modernist photographers Harry Callahan, Aaron Siskind, and Minor White. Well, it seems to me that Jeff Wall's Diagonal Compositions are very much in that tradition. They are pictures for looking at - and that is all.
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2088
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2019, 03:53:49 pm »

I was just looking a Faberryman's website, and he speaks of being informed by the work of the modernist photographers Harry Callahan, Aaron Siskind, and Minor White. Well, it seems to me that Jeff Wall's Diagonal Compositions are very much in that tradition. They are pictures for looking at - and that is all.
Essentially that is right. I have thought about hiring a recent MFA graduate to jazz up my artist statement with contemporary jargon to make it sound more important than that, but decided I couldn't live with myself if I did.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 04:48:57 pm by faberryman »
Logged

petermfiore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2592
    • Peter Fiore Fine Art
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #111 on: May 13, 2019, 04:06:50 pm »

Essentially that is right. I have thought about hiring a recent MFA student to jazz up my artist statement with contemporary jargon to make it sound more important than that, but decided I couldn't live with myself if I did.

The idea of modern changes as times slides by....those photographers are now past being modernists. The world of what most call Modern Art is quite old. Much of it going on 100 years ago modern. Today's work is called Contemporary Art. A huge difference in the world of Fine Art.

Peter

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2088
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #112 on: May 13, 2019, 04:30:08 pm »

Today's work is called Contemporary Art. A huge difference in the world of Fine Art.
I probably should have said mid-century modern, like the architecture. The thing about contemporary art is that it is a moving window. I took a contemporary art course in college in 1975-76, along with several more traditional art history courses. I was studying in Paris at the time. Since that was going on 50 years ago, I doubt the things we saw in galleries then would still be deemed contemporary art. And aren't we at post-contemporary art by now anyway?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 05:49:24 pm by faberryman »
Logged

petermfiore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2592
    • Peter Fiore Fine Art
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #113 on: May 13, 2019, 05:14:55 pm »

I probably should have said mid-century modern, like the architecture. The thing about contemporary art is that it is a moving window. I took a contemporary art course in college in 1975. I was studying in Paris at the time. Since that was going on 50 years ago, I doubt the things we saw in galleries then would still be deemed contemporary art. And aren't we at post-contemporary art by now?

Contemporary always means what's being made today.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 06:52:35 am by petermfiore »
Logged

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2363
    • Robert's Photos
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2019, 06:47:12 am »

It would be a fun thought experiment to present this photo in a different context, a criticism thread say, where no mention of prize money or jury was made.
Logged
--
Robert

elliot_n

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1205
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #115 on: May 15, 2019, 06:53:57 am »

It would be a fun thought experiment to present this photo in a different context, a criticism thread say, where no mention of prize money or jury was made.

https://petapixel.com/2011/07/13/why-you-shouldnt-give-too-much-weight-to-anonymous-online-critics/
Logged

petermfiore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2592
    • Peter Fiore Fine Art
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #116 on: May 15, 2019, 06:55:07 am »

It would be a fun thought experiment to present this photo in a different context, a criticism thread say, where no mention of prize money or jury was made.

I bet it would have gone silently into the night...

Peter

Ivo_B

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1057
    • www.ivophoto.be
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #117 on: May 15, 2019, 07:12:10 am »

It reminds me to the Dutch grand prix Paul Huf (A Dutch photographer) It was an important photo contest for professional photographers. A few years ago the organisation was taken over by an old advertising agent. He transferred the grand Paul Huf contest into a Facebook contest with ridiculous rankings measured by the amount of likes and manipulated in the most bizarre sub ranking ever seen on this planet and beyond.
Some pro photographers returned their nomination and medals because the contest turned out to be a complete joke.
 
 
On one hand, if a contest is curated, peoples get upset because the curator is a so called idiot and don’t know a thing about art.
On the other hand, if the contest is a popularity game, peoples get upset because the contest is a nepotistic endeavour.
 
 
 
Other international photo contest are sick in the same bed. Most of the time it is just a contest organized to collect the subscription money and earn money on the back of naive amateur photographers.
I remember my period at photo.net, I got an envelope at home with a very fancy and expensive looking letter, I was selected and one of my picture would be published in a book. I could already pre order the book for only 75$. There was even a preview included on which page my picture would be published. We also had the unique chance to claim our trophy (Finalist trophy), an etched piece of glass on a ‘real’ Oak pedestal, only for 125$, transport not included.
One of my photo colleagues got the same letter and with exact the same preview, only instead of my picture, his picture was included.
Few weeks later, I got another letter, I was selected as finalist among 100 other. We were invited in San Diego to join the final contest. The cost was only 550$ for accommodation and meals. Travel to San Diego not included.
The winner (10k$) would be selected that day, not based on the selected picture, but every finalist would receive the same camera (And could keep it) and had to go in town to make a picture. The best picture of that photo safari would win the contest. (The camera was a 1.4mp fix focus point and shoot)
 
You can imagine how eager I was to fly from Europe to  San Diego to claim my price
Logged

Ivo_B

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1057
    • www.ivophoto.be
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #118 on: May 15, 2019, 09:38:19 am »

Looks like our Ivo might get rich next year ;)

Well, I prefer to enter my pictures in the Lula comment competition. The comments are worth a million. Eat that, Scotia bank.

 ;D
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 11:19:37 am by Ivo_B »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16910
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: And the $50,000 Scotiabank 2019 Prize in Photography goes to...
« Reply #119 on: May 15, 2019, 10:36:20 am »

https://petapixel.com/2011/07/13/why-you-shouldnt-give-too-much-weight-to-anonymous-online-critics/

Or, more likely, HCB wasn’t such a great photographer? Just another bored burgeois (or as kids say these days: boujee)  ;)
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8   Go Up