Email From B&H

[amolitor]

"We have more or less come to believe that our culture is a support system for commerce, whereas it should be the other way round."
    -- Robert Roaldi

[amolitor]

Unfettered free markets, if they existed, would be complete dumpster fires.

While it is true that a more or less "free" market is the only known solution to running an economy at any scale larger than a handful of tribesmen swapping baskets for fish, with anything like reasonable efficiency, it does NOT follow logically, or in reality, that what results in some kind of blessed state of universal happiness. It follows only that, more of the time then with other systems, wood for pencils arrives at the pencil factory in more or less proper amounts at more or less the right time.

[jeremyrh]

Rob, first of all, remember that there is no such thing as a free market. Every market is deliberately or inadvertently manipulated in some way, shape, or form. The problem usually being subsidies, tax-reduction, prohibition, or other government intervention. T

Not really a "problem" - more a compensation for the non-optimal results of a free market. Economies are grossly non-linear systems, and without a little help will result in undesirable results - so-called "market failure"

[Arlen]

So I guess the fact that a small retailer in Nebraska who sells a unique product by mail must now know the state, county and city sales tax rates for East Overshoe in Backwater county, Oregon, collect for all three political entities, obtain and fill out tax submission forms and mail in the tax for all three: maybe $.12 for Oregon, $.04 for Backwater County, and $.08 for the City of East Overshoe.

Small point of order. "East Overshoe", Oregon, like the rest of the state, has no sales tax.
Maybe a better example would have been South Overshoe, LA? After all, Louisiana (a red state) has the highest combined state and local sales tax in the nation. 
Carry on.

[Rob C]

In terms of camera retailers I've never been better served or had more choice than I have now.

I can choose between smaller independent specialist dealers or larger outlets providing a vast array of manufacturer's goods. They all have good knowledge of product and exemplary service. They all have bricks and mortar shops as well as efficient online outlets. They all offer competitive pricing. All the above are trading today because they offer all of these qualities.

It's all too easy to crave a return to that oft remembered golden era in the mists of time, but I'll stick with the now and the reality.

That's what's called the north/south divide, and why there is a Scottish Nationalist party. Economic shit hardy affects the greater London basin, and why everything in Britain is increasingly London-centric. You have no idea, you southies. Northwards from Watford lies a hard country(ies).

;-)

[RSL]

Small point of order. "East Overshoe", Oregon, like the rest of the state, has no sales tax.
Maybe a better example would have been South Overshoe, LA? After all, Louisiana (a red state) has the highest combined state and local sales tax in the nation. 
Carry on.

Thanks, Arlen. But I'd rather stick with good ol' East Overshoe. It makes the points that first: the state, county and city will spend more to mail the tax forms than they'll receive in tax, and second: the merchant is going to spend more in postage to mail the tax than the amount of the tax. Beyond that, I guess the merchant's time to do all this crap is valueless, not to mention the time wasted by the public employees who'll mail out the tax forms and record the pittance returned. But what the hell, it keeps the public employees (more than likely unionized) employed, and that's usually the bottom line.

[KLaban]

That's what's called the north/south divide, and why there is a Scottish Nationalist party. Economic shit hardy affects the greater London basin, and why everything in Britain is increasingly London-centric. You have no idea, you southies. Northwards from Watford lies a hard country(ies).

;-)

And you want back there?

;-)

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Thanks, Arlen. But I'd rather stick with good ol' East Overshoe. It makes the points that first: the state, county and city will spend more to mail the tax forms than they'll receive in tax, and second: the merchant is going to spend more in postage to mail the tax than the amount of the tax...

It is all online, Russ. At least when I was submitting sales tax in Illinois.

[RSL]

I don’t doubt it, Slobodan, though since it’s government agencies doing this it wouldn’t be inconceivable that they’re still using pony express. But the point still is there. What it means is that the merchant is going to have to know the sales tax percent for East Overshoe, Backwater County, and Oregon in order to complete his sale. Then he’s going to have to fill out the tax forms – online in this case – and transfer the tax money to the recipients. Some states may use a joint system to collect for counties and cities, as Colorado did when I was collecting sales tax, but as of now there’s no guarantee of that.

Frankly, I’m surprised that the left isn’t complaining loudly about this. There’s no more “regressive” tax out there than sales tax.

[Jeremy Roussak]

That's what happens as you get older.

As indeed it did; but I had it dealt with.

Jeremy

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Russ, it is undoubtedly a hassle. Even before online sales. And even online.

Several Chicago suburbs span two counties, with different tax rates, of course. In my own suburb, I knew where the delineation is, so no problem. But for other art-fair venues, I had to search county boundaries online to determine which one applies. Then come mid-year tax-rate changes. Then art-fair organizes would advise you on one tax rate, but you'd discover that the online one is different.

It would be fair that, for online sales, only a single state sales tax applies, or even a single federal one.

[Rob C]

And you want back there?

;-)

Comes a time that wanting something takes second place to doing the right thing for the next generation's sake.

Having said which, I'm sure a nice place in Watford would still be more expensive than a comparable one in Glasgow. It works the other way around: people sell their place in London and become relative zillionaires when they move to their final retirement property in Perthshire or Wales. Quite where the young natives of those places go is unclear; if it's anything like the effect it has in Mallorca, they just stay at home until they inherit.

:-)

[Robert Roaldi]

Cross-state tax differences can't be a new thing. How was it handled in the mail order business back in the day?

If the problem arises because of the ambiguous physical location of the place you are purchasing from, that's a consequence of political jurisdictions not keeping up with the interweb. Maybe politicians should stop screaming at each other on Twitter and figure these things out, since that's what they are paid to do. The web has been around for long enough now.

[RSL]

Cross-state tax differences can't be a new thing. How was it handled in the mail order business back in the day?

If the problem arises because of the ambiguous physical location of the place you are purchasing from, that's a consequence of political jurisdictions not keeping up with the interweb. Maybe politicians should stop screaming at each other on Twitter and figure these things out, since that's what they are paid to do. The web has been around for long enough now.

Hi Robert, "Back in the day" the person doing out of state selling didn't worry about it. It was up to the buyer to report the purchase to the state, the county, and the city, and pay sales taxes locally. SURE! Everybody rushed to declare the $25 reflector they just bought from B&H, and pay the $.75 they owed the state, the $.25 they owed the county, and the $.50 they owed the city. At least that would have been the situation when I was mayor of Manitou Springs, Colorado. I don't remember anyone rushing to declare their purchases, and I don't blame them. There was absolutely no reasonable way to track that kind of sale. So, instead of finding a more workable approach, and wanting to cop every penny of tax they could collect, our government put the burden on the seller --  to keep track of thousands of taxing districts. Slobodan just made the point: a single suburb spanning two counties. I agree with Slobodan that the only reasonable solution is a combined sales tax with the feds managing the thing. But do we really want the ultra-efficient federal government handing sales tax? Somehow, the idea leaves me with a dearth of enthusiasm.

[Chris Kern]

Cross-state tax differences can't be a new thing. How was it handled in the mail order business back in the day?

In general, prior to the Supreme Court ruling I cited earlier in this thread, a state government could only require a retailer to collect sales tax on its behalf if the retailer had a physical presence in the state (e.g., a physical store).

Since the residence of the purchaser determines which state's sales tax applies, merchants only collected sales tax on purchases by residents of a state where they had a physical presence.

The states had the authority to tax purchases by their residents from out-of-state retailers, but I suspect most consumers never even knew if the state where they lived imposed such an obligation.  Generally the only entities that did that were businesses which were claiming retail purchases as business expense deductions from their state income tax liability.

[RSL]

Exactly, Chris. So now the government has greatly improved the situation -- from the point of view of the government.

[OmerV]

Then sellers on online market places like eBay and Etsy will also be required to collect taxes, if they don’t already. I would think those two and others would benefit by helping the sellers with some system that would automate tax rates.

[Robert Roaldi]

Then sellers on online market places like eBay and Etsy will also be required to collect taxes, if they don’t already. I would think those two and others would benefit by helping the sellers with some system that would automate tax rates.

That's what I would have thought. In my brief 6 year sojourn in the point-of-sale industry, it was just taken for granted that cash register companies had to implement exactly that kind of knowledge in their devices. Someone somewhere (and actually it's many people) know all the tax rules/rates based on geographic location. Making that info available to online sellers is not close to being the most complex thing they do. It could be standard operating procedure. Web sites now deal externally with credit card services as part of a sale, what is so hard about another service request to a tax rate calculator supplier. (I would not be surprised if it already exists in some form.)