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Author Topic: Fuji GFX 50r  (Read 3938 times)

BobShaw

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2019, 03:19:45 pm »

Ugh the ebay seller cancelled the sale after I paid for the P65+

no idea why, but that means I'm back to square one.
Could be a sign.
Hasselblad just release Certified Pre Owned X1D.
https://www.hasselblad.com/certified-pre-owned/?utm_source=Hasselblad+End+Users&utm_campaign=aa6acc6576-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_10_25_12_06_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_16f5cb481a-aa6acc6576-350120573

CMOS instead of CCD and USB instead of Firewire. Plus a new camera using the same lenses. I used HC lenses for a year before getting  my first XCD.
Put your existing camera and on eBay while it is still worth something.
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Endeavour

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2019, 03:59:19 pm »

thanks Bob

as previously said, I would love an X1D but the reasons I am reluctant are:

1) What are Hasselblad doing with it? Is it discontinued or not? will there be serviceable parts available in the future etc
2) My HC lenses are too old to have the firmware updated to support the X1D so I will need to buy new lenses anyway
3) The GFX 50s is cheaper, potentially better supported and is readily available
4) The GFX 50s can be fitted to my 4x5 camera with the adapter - something I am very interested in trying out
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2019, 05:45:23 pm »

4) The GFX 50s can be fitted to my 4x5 camera with the adapter - something I am very interested in trying out

Note that there are significant restrictions on the widest angle lens this will support. The exact limitation depends on the view camera in question, but none will reach especially wide.

Endeavour

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2019, 05:47:32 pm »

Note that there are significant restrictions on the widest angle lens this will support. The exact limitation depends on the view camera in question, but none will reach especially wide.

of this I am aware. and there is a reason it's last on the list - just a bit of fun I'd like to try out - it's not going to replace my 4x5 film
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eronald

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2019, 07:05:12 pm »

There will be a glut of used GFX 50S cameras on the market at the end of this month as the 100 comes on line.

Edmund
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faberryman

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2019, 07:15:13 pm »

There will be a glut of used GFX 50S cameras on the market at the end of this month as the 100 comes on line.
You don't think people will hang onto them as a second body?

Christoph B.

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2019, 07:46:54 pm »

I had the P65+ and have the IQ180. Both use Dalsa sensors and behave very similar regarding color reproduction, DR and long exposure capability.
The IQ180 I try to use at ISO 35 and and 50 only and limit the exposure time to 8s. Any higher ISO or longer exposure time adds noise artefacts which effectively reduces the usable resolution on a level below any current high resolution 135 cameras.
These are great backs but nowadays I find the 50MP CMOS sensor in the GFX so much more convenient and flexible to work with (I expect soon the same with the 100MP version), so I rarely use IQ180 and I today won't recommend to invest in such dated system.

The "trick" with the claims towards the CCD-IQ backs and their long exposure capabilities is related to Capture One noise reduction and hot pixel elimination. That's why 50% noise reduction (luma and color noise) is set as standard - which greatly reduces the amount of visible detail in the photos.

I sold my P65+ after I tested the GFX 50s and I'm really quite happy with the Fuji system. If only there was a Mamiya645-AF adapter for the GFX...

I don't think too many people will jump on the GFX 100s - for one the price will be about 10.000€. Also I don't think too many people will need 100MP and I think most enjoy the small build of the GFX50s/r - and the 100s is pretty big and heavy incomparison.

So while it may be a great body for rental purposes (rather cheap for a day or a week compared to a PhaseOne or Hasselblad system) it's still quite an expensive purchase for most users.
And it would be interesting to compare long exposure/high ISO and low light performance in general with the 50s/r.
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eronald

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2019, 08:27:59 pm »

You don't think people will hang onto them as a second body?

I think some users, and maybe also rental houses will resell.

The attraction of the new body is not the resolution, it is focus due to the new sensor's focus pixels, and IBIS.

I expect a pricepoint of $9.5K. At an upgrade cost of about $6K if you factor in the resale of a 50, the 100 is a nobrainer for anyone who already uses the Fuji system handheld in the studio, for IBIS and Phase detect AF over the whole field, eye focus and follow focus AF.

I expect the GFX-100 to become a hit in fashion, where handholding a camera has its uses even when tethered, and  Phase backs and C1 were always held back by the limitations of the Phamiya and XF bodies.

My expectation is that anyone with a C1 workflow and cash coming in will ditch their Phase One gear at this point, or possibly run a Fuji next to a Phase 150, with the Fuji for mostly everything handheld.

Interestingly, Hasselblad still has a niche in the easy-to-carry MF department, if they don't blow it.

Edmund
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 10:58:14 pm by eronald »
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BobShaw

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2019, 02:44:58 am »

1) What are Hasselblad doing with it? Is it discontinued or not? will there be serviceable parts available in the future etc
> All I can say are that Hasselblad are still selling it. Plenty of people still have 50 year old Hasselblads.

2) My HC lenses are too old to have the firmware updated to support the X1D so I will need to buy new lenses anyway
>All HC lenses work on manual focus, which should not worry you if you shoot landscape. The 80mm works fine as general purpose. Focus on tethering works.

3) The GFX 50s is cheaper, potentially better supported and is readily available
>A Canon or Nikon is cheaper also. Actually I paid less for my dealer demo X1D than I would have for a Canon !Dx

4) The GFX 50s can be fitted to my 4x5 camera with the adapter - something I am very interested in trying out
>Not really. It is not a back, it is a complete camera. So it is possible to bolt it on, but you will have no wide angle.
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pschefz

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2019, 03:45:15 pm »

Could be a sign.
Hasselblad just release Certified Pre Owned X1D.
https://www.hasselblad.com/certified-pre-owned/?utm_source=Hasselblad+End+Users&utm_campaign=aa6acc6576-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_10_25_12_06_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_16f5cb481a-aa6acc6576-350120573

CMOS instead of CCD and USB instead of Firewire. Plus a new camera using the same lenses. I used HC lenses for a year before getting  my first XCD.
Put your existing camera and on eBay while it is still worth something.

i got swamped with emails and on social media about this...so i checked it out...2 bodies total at 5800 and 6200$, i could not find anything outside US, maybe already all sold? regardless: it looks desperate to launch this for selling literally a few bodies.... used....really makes you wonder how many bodies they actually managed to sell overall?
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2019, 04:51:37 pm »

i got swamped with emails and on social media about this...so i checked it out...2 bodies total at 5800 and 6200$, i could not find anything outside US, maybe already all sold? regardless: it looks desperate to launch this for selling literally a few bodies.... used....really makes you wonder how many bodies they actually managed to sell overall?


In my experience, they never list more than a couple of the same model. They could have 14 X1D bodies sitting there, they're not going to list every single one of them. As they sell through, they tend to fill in until they're gone (at least that is what IU have seen when we used to order Hasselblad Certified Models). But it is very rare they will show more than 2 of the same model. You'll notice the serial numbers change over time. So .. not desperate.


Steve Hendrix/CI
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eronald

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2019, 11:21:36 pm »


In my experience, they never list more than a couple of the same model. They could have 14 X1D bodies sitting there, they're not going to list every single one of them. As they sell through, they tend to fill in until they're gone (at least that is what IU have seen when we used to order Hasselblad Certified Models). But it is very rare they will show more than 2 of the same model. You'll notice the serial numbers change over time. So .. not desperate.


Steve Hendrix/CI

There are 6 X1D bodies on the Europe page at the moment.

Edmund
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narikin

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2019, 12:09:58 pm »

I don't think too many people will jump on the GFX 100s - for one the price will be about 10.000€. Also I don't think too many people will need 100MP and I think most enjoy the small build of the GFX50s/r - and the 100s is pretty big and heavy incomparison.

So while it may be a great body for rental purposes (rather cheap for a day or a week compared to a PhaseOne or Hasselblad system) it's still quite an expensive purchase for most users.
And it would be interesting to compare long exposure/high ISO and low light performance in general with the 50s/r.

Hmmm - don't agree. There's a lot of people who need high Mp, so let's not go down that old rabbit hole.
I'm one of them and am on the wait list for the 100. 50mp is of no interest.

Sony are coming with ~65Mp A7R4 later this year, so there's little point in getting a 50s/ 50R now.  The 100, yes, thats a different ballgame, with IBIS and latest BSI sensor. Looking forward to it.
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Christoph B.

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2019, 12:09:25 pm »

I'd say that a 50MP (small) medium format camera will generally be a better choice than a 65MP small format camera.

A smaller sensor area with a high pixel density isn't a good combination...

Also: how many small format lenses will be able to really keep up with that resolution, especially in the corners? All that pixel peeping will turn into mush reading.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2019, 08:08:05 am »

One major value of the Fuji 100mp will be its support by C1 Pro.

Another one is the vertical grip that will be much more comfortable to use that the old fashioned designed of the XF and H MF bodies. So much better for handheld portrait shooting.

I find this camera very appealing.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2019, 08:56:26 am »

One major value of the Fuji 100mp will be its support by C1 Pro.

Another one is the vertical grip that will be much more comfortable to use that the old fashioned designed of the XF and H MF bodies. So much better for handheld portrait shooting.

I find this camera very appealing.

Cheers,
Bernard

It's quite astonishing how mirrorless has changed the market, no one predicted that only one company (Hassy) would make the investments necessary to survive, and that a new entrant would eat everyone's lunch.

Edmund
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Dan Wells

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2019, 01:16:28 pm »

Yes, physics indicates that a 50 MP small medium format sensor will have higher image quality (all else being equal) than a similar pixel count (or the hypothetical 65 mp) 24x36mm sensor. I'm assuming that the question is low-ISO image quality with a great lens in a big print (why else consider medium format)? In the present case, all else is not equal. Image quality on the same size/pixel count sensor generally increases over time if you're looking at the same technology tree (in this case, all relevant sensors are variants on Sony CMOS).

 The 50 MP medium format sensor is the oldest Sony sensor in any camera manufactured today (it's a 2014 sensor), while the 42-45 MP generation 24x36mm sensors are relatively recent, with several technological improvements since 2014 (BSI, copper wiring). Any Sony ~65 MP 24x36mm sensor would be the very latest generation, with further improvements.

The question becomes: will more favorable physics overcome several years of technology? In the case of the 50MP sensor versus the Sony/Nikon 45MP, my answer from looking at big prints very closely was "generally either tied or a very, very slight advantage to the big sensor, but by so little you'd need a magnifying glass to tell, and certainly not by enough to make the weight difference for camera and lenses worth it". A 65MP sensor with another couple of years of technology advances would probably beat the venerable 50MP sensor.

Of course, none of this holds for the 100 MP small medium format sensor. THAT is technologically recent, larger, and holds a substantial pixel count advantage (plus 16-bit readout). That sensor should beat any 24x36mm sensor for the next several years.

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imagetone

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2019, 01:51:52 pm »

One major value of the Fuji 100mp will be its support by C1 Pro.

Has either Phase One or Fuji said officially how long the commitment to support the GFX cameras in C1 is for? I was told it was for three years initially. I hope it continues well beyond that.
Tony
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2019, 04:34:26 pm »

Has either Phase One or Fuji said officially how long the commitment to support the GFX cameras in C1 is for? I was told it was for three years initially. I hope it continues well beyond that.

Odds are that C1 Pro will be Phaseone’s most important, product by then. I would be surprised if they ever dropped support for Fuji small MF.

I don’t see the 645 sensor market expanding much. The IQ4 150 manages to motivate some people to upgrade thanks for the the superior tech camera movement behavior, but who will continue to invest 40,000+ US$ every 2-3 years to go from 150mp to 200 mp... knowing that there is no new tech camera glass available to upgrade to? Yes, some backs will die and be replaced but that is a really tiny market, these backs can last years if used in controlled environments.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 02:43:00 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Dan Wells

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Re: Fuji GFX 50r
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2019, 01:30:53 am »

I wonder which product is financially most important to Phase One? Not that many years ago (I think this was right around when Adobe went subscription-only), it was still the backs, despite robust sales of Capture One. The revenue per back was so huge that a relatively small number of backs outstripped many more C1 licenses.

With Adobe's recent shenanigans, C1 is probably a more important product than it has been, and I wonder how much less expensive "small MF" mirrorless systems and really good high-resolution 24x36mm (DSLR and mirrorless) systems have affected Phase One's back sales. Most of the image quality change in backs has been at the extreme upper end of an already high-end market, while Fuji, Sony and Nikon have been chewing on the lower end... How many $40,000 backs are they selling? And are they selling a couple hundred times as many C1 licenses?
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