Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Confused - Canon ProGraf Pro-1000 Media types & Colour Profiles  (Read 1462 times)

agawthrope

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8

Ok, so I purchased a Canon Prograf Pro-1000 a short while ago and have been producing some nice prints using custom ICC profiles generated by my paper manufacturer - Fotospeed - after printing and supplying them with a test sheets.
But I'm now starting to question and doubt what I'm doing and could do with some guidance please :-)

Let me start by saying I didn't specify any particular media type before printing the test sheets referenced above.  But I now see that the process of creating a custom media type does an alignment check, a self-colour calibration and allows a custom ICC profile to be specified.  I didn't do any of this before printing the test sheets for Fotospeed and I am wondering whether I should have?

But do I need to create custom media types at all?  I wish to let my software, Capture One v12, control the colour through my provision of a custom ICC profile not the printer and I can specify paper sizes at print time too.  So, if I don't create custom media types can I just ignore the media type selection?  If so, how does the printer know things such as how high to keep the head above the paper?  Does it perhaps work that out automatically?

In summary, do I need to worry about the selection of media types and if I do, should I be creating a custom media type for each type and size of paper?  Or can I just let the software do its thing and control the colour?

Apologies if this is a bit messy - I'm conscious that media types and colour management are intertwined...

Thanks,
Andrew
Logged

Ryan Mack

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
    • Ryan Mack on Facebook
Re: Confused - Canon ProGraf Pro-1000 Media types & Colour Profiles
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2019, 10:24:55 am »

Generally speaking the paper manufacturer will specify which media type they recommend for the paper based on how much ink it can hold. Canon Pro Platinum and Canon Pro Luster are commonly used for RC papers because they are the only two that apply CO uniformly over the paper (when CO full
Coverage is enabled). I generally stick to those and one of the media types each for canvas and fine art matte paper. I haven’t found the need to create custom media types myself.
Logged

agawthrope

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Confused - Canon ProGraf Pro-1000 Media types & Colour Profiles
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2019, 11:04:19 am »

Ryan,

That helps.  Thank you.
I'm going to ignore custom media types and use the Canon media types suggested by the paper supplier. 

Andrew
Logged

NAwlins_Contrarian

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 225
Re: Confused - Canon ProGraf Pro-1000 Media types & Colour Profiles
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2019, 11:25:45 pm »

I purchased a Canon Prograf Pro-1000 a short while ago and have been producing some nice prints using custom ICC profiles ... after printing and supplying them with a test sheets.... I didn't specify any particular media type before printing the test sheets ....

But you did specify a particular media type, at least by default. Whatever media type was set in the printer driver when you printed the profiling target(s) is the media type on which the resulting ICC profile is based. Getting accurate color requires using that same media type with the custom ICC profile when you print onto that paper.

At this point you may not be able to recall or determine what media type was set when you printed the profiling targets. Unfortunately I don't know a good way to reliably determine that. Also, I can't tell you how much difference using a different media type will make. If you profile Canon Luster with the media type set to Canon Semigloss, my guess is very little if any. If you profile some cotton matte paper with the media type set for Canon Platinum, it will probably make a substantial difference.

In the future, make a note of the media type setting when printing a profiling target. Better yet, try to set the media setting to something appropriate for the paper you're profiling. Determining the best media setting may be somewhat difficult and/or involved. Determining a reasonably-appropriate setting by choosing one for the most similar paper (based on surface, thickness, base material, etc.) is probably usually somewhat easier. And then there's the problem that more than once I've seen the media type setting recommendations differ between Canon and the paper manufacturer.

It can be complex!
Logged

agawthrope

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Confused - Canon ProGraf Pro-1000 Media types & Colour Profiles
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2019, 03:19:28 pm »

Thank you.  It is one big learning experience right now, but I am making progress :-)

Since my post I've been printing test sheets on different papers to get more custom profiles.  This time I've been careful to get the paper manufacturers recommendation for a compatible media type.  I've included the previous paper types too and now have a map of paper type / compatible media type.  :-)

Thanks again,
Andy

But you did specify a particular media type, at least by default. Whatever media type was set in the printer driver when you printed the profiling target(s) is the media type on which the resulting ICC profile is based. Getting accurate color requires using that same media type with the custom ICC profile when you print onto that paper.

At this point you may not be able to recall or determine what media type was set when you printed the profiling targets. Unfortunately I don't know a good way to reliably determine that. Also, I can't tell you how much difference using a different media type will make. If you profile Canon Luster with the media type set to Canon Semigloss, my guess is very little if any. If you profile some cotton matte paper with the media type set for Canon Platinum, it will probably make a substantial difference.

In the future, make a note of the media type setting when printing a profiling target. Better yet, try to set the media setting to something appropriate for the paper you're profiling. Determining the best media setting may be somewhat difficult and/or involved. Determining a reasonably-appropriate setting by choosing one for the most similar paper (based on surface, thickness, base material, etc.) is probably usually somewhat easier. And then there's the problem that more than once I've seen the media type setting recommendations differ between Canon and the paper manufacturer.

It can be complex!
Logged

nirpat89

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 661
    • Photography by Niranjan Patel
Re: Confused - Canon ProGraf Pro-1000 Media types & Colour Profiles
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2019, 08:34:06 pm »

Thank you.  It is one big learning experience right now, but I am making progress :-)

Since my post I've been printing test sheets on different papers to get more custom profiles.  This time I've been careful to get the paper manufacturers recommendation for a compatible media type.  I've included the previous paper types too and now have a map of paper type / compatible media type.  :-)

Thanks again,
Andy

Whatever media type you choose, make sure you don't mix up PK and MK based media types.... :)

I have never been able to figure out what various media type settings do beyond specifying whether to use PK or MK ink (or may be GO, if there is one available.)  For example, first with an HP B9180 and then with Epson P400, when I printed the same given paper, say HP Advanced Glossy paper for HP and the Epson Glossy Photo Paper for Epson and printed them with various PK-based available options for media types  - like glossy, luster etc, I found no difference in the outcomes.  When a (0,0,0) block was printed on the same paper with the same profile but with different media types, they all measured similar (ColorMunki spot mode.)  Same results with a matte paper printed with various MK-based media types.  In case of HP 9180B, I then created two custom media types - one for glossy and one for matte, then used those in lieu of the recommended media types and found no change in the overall color or the Dmax in subsequent prints.  Granted this is a limited set of experiments with one ancient (HP) printer and one lower-end (Epson) printer so I wouldn't generalize this observation.  I would be interested if there are any data that show the ink loading and consequently the icc profile are changed between various paper types within the same K.  Perhaps this was common knowledge before my time.

:Niranjan.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 08:44:47 pm by nirpat89 »
Logged

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4344
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Confused - Canon ProGraf Pro-1000 Media types & Colour Profiles
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2019, 07:33:44 am »

The media type does several things.  It specifies MK or PK ink, the amount of ink that is laid down on the paper and the drying time as the paper advances through the printer.  Canon allows one to configure a special media type allowing the user to configure the ink laydown and drying times.  One needs to examine the "standard" Canon driver settings to see if they give satisfactory results before embarking on creating a new media type.  I've not experimented with this feature on my Pro-1000 as I have just been doing a bunch of profiling using the standard paper settings.  Most matte paper manufacturers recommend Highest Density Fine Art Paper and the two gloss papers I commonly use call for Pro Platinum.

there is a good thread on the Media Creation Tool HERE with a contribution from Kieth Cooper who often posts on LuLa.  Unless there is a compelling reason to change something, one should use the manufacturer's suggested media type.
Logged

agawthrope

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Confused - Canon ProGraf Pro-1000 Media types & Colour Profiles
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2019, 03:22:35 pm »

Thanks Alan.  That looks like an interesting thread.  I'll go have a look.

Andy

The media type does several things.  It specifies MK or PK ink, the amount of ink that is laid down on the paper and the drying time as the paper advances through the printer.  Canon allows one to configure a special media type allowing the user to configure the ink laydown and drying times.  One needs to examine the "standard" Canon driver settings to see if they give satisfactory results before embarking on creating a new media type.  I've not experimented with this feature on my Pro-1000 as I have just been doing a bunch of profiling using the standard paper settings.  Most matte paper manufacturers recommend Highest Density Fine Art Paper and the two gloss papers I commonly use call for Pro Platinum.

there is a good thread on the Media Creation Tool HERE with a contribution from Kieth Cooper who often posts on LuLa.  Unless there is a compelling reason to change something, one should use the manufacturer's suggested media type.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up