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Author Topic: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?  (Read 1805 times)

sgwrx

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hello. so i'm starting to think about selling prints. but i'm wondering what types of things can i photograph and sell without running into copyright issues.

for example, if i live near a very famous sports stadium and i photograph it in part or in whole (team logo or stadium name visible and not visible) can i photograph it, print it and sell it?  what about capturing a statue in front of that stadium? what about other architecture?

another example, if i go to an airshow or car show, can i photograph planes or cars that are parked in whole or in part?  someone owns that plane or that car.

another example, and i think the answer would for sure be no on this one, but if i photograph cars racing such that you can see which team is racing and the sponsorship etc... i'm guessing no.

how about public art in a park? or public gardens in a park?

thanks,



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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2019, 12:36:54 am »

I am not a lawyer, but my recollection is that you can sell prints of all of the above. What you couldn’t do for some of the above is use it for commercial purposes, i.e., advertising.

Rob C

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2019, 04:59:07 am »

I am not a lawyer, but my recollection is that you can sell prints of all of the above. What you couldn’t do for some of the above is use it for commercial purposes, i.e., advertising.

So how isn't selling prints a commercial purpose?

;-)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2019, 07:49:56 am »

So how isn't selling prints a commercial purpose?

;-)

There is a distinction between selling works of art and using images in commercial advertising. I've heard this often but never looked it up. (btw, I have no legal training, I've never even been arrested) I found this https://thelawtog.com/is-photographing-a-logo-legal/. When the monied legal firms have finished torturing the concept of private vs common spaces, we'll probably end up not being to take pictures of anything. I know that when I wasted a few months submitting photos to some microstock agencies, they would reject pics with any trademarked logos in them, e.g., the "FORD" oval on the front hood of cars, but that was because they wanted to protect themselves from anyone who bought that photo and mis-used it "commercially".

I have always resented the fact that corporations can place their logos on buildings, say, and because of that, that visual space is now restricted in how it cab be used by the rest of us. But they never paid the rest of us anything for that privilege. I think that's just another example of how we've forgotten that commerce should be subservient to the surrounding culture, whereas we mostly behave now as if the  surrounding culture is a support system for commerce.
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sgwrx

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2019, 09:52:26 pm »

oh boy, i can flipflop on these ideas and get worked up on all the different points -f view!  for example the cynic in me kee jerk reaction is that culture IS commerce!  i blame litigious societies.  perhaps tomorrow i will say the opposite thpugh.  but yeah in the US a while ago i noticed  any commercial with a car in it had no corp logo on the car!

i will have to do more research.  at least nature still belongs to noone for the most part.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2019, 01:22:18 am »

oh boy, i can flipflop on these ideas and get worked up on all the different points of view!

There are really no different points of view. Selling fine art prints is not considered commercial use. At least not in the USA.

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 04:53:34 am »

There are really no different points of view. Selling fine art prints is not considered commercial use. At least not in the USA.

But wouldn't the photographer be required to obtain permission from the owner of the subject being photographed? As in the OP examples: stadium owner; art; cars in shows; planes in airshows; etc.

Rob C

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 06:55:55 am »

Wait unitl the gas people put a legal order out on all oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen etc. and make us pay a licence subscription to the Cloud for the air and rain that we "consume" that they could otherwise use more efficiently and profitably.

Within ten years it would be considered normal, so what's the fuss, people would then ask of any old boy with remaining memory of life back in the last century. Of course, social media would soon put an end to that, wouldn't it? Individual thought? Call the supervisors; they've got your number.

!984 was just a rough estimate of the date.

Rob

RSL

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 07:15:32 am »

Y'all might want to check http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 10:10:01 am »

But wouldn't the photographer be required to obtain permission from the owner of the subject being photographed? As in the OP examples: stadium owner; art; cars in shows; planes in airshows; etc.

No.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 11:30:56 am »

But wouldn't the photographer be required to obtain permission from the owner of the subject being photographed? As in the OP examples: stadium owner; art; cars in shows; planes in airshows; etc.

I have read about but have no personal experience with venues that attempt to restrict photography such as NFL stadiums (and maybe NHL hockey arenas). The stories are usually about how they turn away "big pro-looking" cameras. I don't really know their reasoning though, that is, are they asserting exclusive imaging rights or are they enforcing exclusivity contracts with their own photographers? I also don't know if these restrictions have ever been tested in the courts. Maybe they have, but I have only ever read statements in photo forums, so not necessarily legally correct.

There must be a million cameras at F1 races, but they usually offer exclusive trackside locations to pro photographers and so maybe they just rely on the fact that only those sanctioned pros are likely to get the best photos so don't care what people do in the stands.

In most cases, you don't need permission to take or even to sell those pics, however using those images in advertising, say, does require permission, since that is no longer personal use.

I did read about a case where even using a trademarked logo in an ad was considered ok. The restriction is only there to avoid confusion in the mind of the consumer, like selling a "Rolexe" watch. There have been comparison advertisements where a brand uses their competitor's product in their advertisement and got away with it since it did not cause any such confusion. Unfortunately, I can't remember what it was, but it was akin to Rover using a Jeep in an ad and showing the Jeep getting stuck in a spot where the Rover drove on through. That's NOT the ad I'm thinking of but it was that kind of thing. (Did Pepsi use actual Coke cans with Coke logos in those taste test ads way back when?)
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Chris Kern

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2019, 04:05:30 pm »

But wouldn't the photographer be required to obtain permission from the owner of the subject being photographed? As in the OP examples: stadium owner; art; cars in shows; planes in airshows; etc.

No.

Two fine points, however: (1) in the United States, owners of private property* typically have a right to restrict photography by giving notice to visitors (e.g., by posting signs); (2) various states have different laws that may modify the default presumption that photography is permitted without permission (e.g., restrictions on making photographs in medical facilities).

———
*This includes property owned by a governmental entity that is not considered a public place: for example, a military installation.

RSL

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2019, 04:22:30 pm »

Chris, There are many caveats. For instance you aren’t allowed to make a blameless woman look like a streetwalker. Plenty more like that one about cheating people. But, generally, if you’re on public property – say the street – you can shoot any damn thing you can see, unless you’re violating the privacy of somebody who has an expectation of privacy, or unless you’re shooting something like military secrets. Someone who has an expectation of privacy would be, for instance, somebody looking out the window of her home. Of course, if you’re on somebody’s property, that’s a different story. The owner of the property can keep you from shooting pictures. Bert Krages covers the subject in reasonable detail in his single-sheet PDF (carry it in your pocket) to which I referred earlier. He also has a book: Legal Handbook for Photographers, which you can get from Amazon for ten bucks. Bert’s a photographer as well as an attorney, and he’s an authority on the subject of photography law.
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petermfiore

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2019, 04:27:36 pm »

Wait unitl the gas people put a legal order out on all oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen etc. and make us pay a licence subscription to the Cloud for the air and rain that we "consume" that they could otherwise use more efficiently and profitably.

Within ten years it would be considered normal, so what's the fuss, people would then ask of any old boy with remaining memory of life back in the last century. Of course, social media would soon put an end to that, wouldn't it? Individual thought? Call the supervisors; they've got your number.

!984 was just a rough estimate of the date.

Rob


Trust me if it can be metered you will be charged...

Peter

sgwrx

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 12:59:29 pm »

thanks all. i'll continue to research and make sure to check out local ordinances etc... but generally it looks like anything public view is the way to go. i tend to always be more cautious and unobtrusive. but really you all bring out different points of view which i've not thought about.  i remember a story about what i thought was quite controversial where a photographer took pictures of a high-rise apartment building across the street from him and most people had their blinds/curtains open. i certainly don't want to do that!  but i do like respecting people even if they are in public.  as far as corporate logos and such i would never want to "brand" anything i photograph specifically - so i wouldn't want to have an obvious NFL logo in my shot, but maybe 1/4th of it, the suggestion rather than blatant.

the "security" aspect of it i think is something that some people can be quite concerned about and for good reason even though the PDF mentioned above supposedly has stats that security incidents have never been perpetrated due to photography. for me this covers secrets/saftey etc...

the personal privacy aspect is something, like i said, i try to respect. however, i also am not interested in public people photography.  if i were, i would definitely approach people and let them know what i'm doing. although one thing i have always wanted to do is to take long exposure shots of a summer vacation area where people are motion blurred.  it sounds like i have every right to do that.  say people getting ice cream at a summer hotspot.

however, i never really realized it but people who photograph celebrities - duh, it has to be legal in public.

the one thing i'm still a little unclear on though, is if i see an old rusty truck on someone's property.  as long as i'm not on their property - on the street or sidewalk - i should be OK even if the property owner does not want me to photograph it? for example they come out of the house and saw me and said "no".  i'm quite timid.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 01:22:22 pm »

... i remember a story about what i thought was quite controversial where a photographer took pictures of a high-rise apartment building across the street from him and most people had their blinds/curtains open....

Not only that, but he took, among others, pics of children behind those windows, parents took him to court and... lost. However, it was in New York, not every state would be that permissible.

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... the one thing i'm still a little unclear on though, is if i see an old rusty truck on someone's property.  as long as i'm not on their property - on the street or sidewalk - i should be OK even if the property owner does not want me to photograph it? for example they come out of the house and saw me and said "no".  i'm quite timid.

Legally, you should be ok. Have a good medical insurance, just in case ;)

sgwrx

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 01:49:19 pm »

Legally, you should be ok. Have a good medical insurance, just in case ;)

nice...
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TomFrerichs

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Re: selling printed photos question, what can i photograph and sell?
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 02:20:02 pm »

nice...

There really are three questions you need to get the answer to:

1.  What can I photograph?
2.  Where can I photograph?
3.  What can I do with the images?

Get the book Russ recommended. It can help you enormously.

Tom
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