Would you find this delta-E acceptable on a new PA271q?

Started by geneo, March 10, 2019, 01:04:31 pm

geneo

Quote from: howardm on March 10, 2019, 02:24:43 pm
One thing not mentioned is monitor 'tilt' and how flat the sensor may be to the surface and the room ambient lighting.

Tilt the monitor back and put a black t-shirt over it to keep out stray light.  It'd be interesting to know if that made any difference.


Thanks,

I do always tilt the monitor back (you really almost have to) and I do the calibration in a dark room.  I used the same procedure on my older spectraview monitor with no issues.
Walk softly and carry a big lens

Alan Goldhammer

For photo editing the contrast value is way to high.
Alan Goldhammer
A Goldhammer Photography

Mark D Segal

Quote from: geneo on March 10, 2019, 02:33:08 pm
Thanks,

I do always tilt the monitor back (you really almost have to) and I do the calibration in a dark room.  I used the same procedure on my older spectraview monitor with no issues.


I agree with Andrew that this begins to look more and more like a product issue that you need to get to the bottom of with NEC Solutions Inc. Curious to know what exactly have they advised so far?
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

geneo

Quote from: Alan Goldhammer on March 10, 2019, 02:37:39 pm
For photo editing the contrast value is way to high.


I have tried lower contrast as well with the same result.
Walk softly and carry a big lens

geneo

Quote from: geneo on March 10, 2019, 03:11:29 pm
I have tried lower contrast as well with the same result.


They have said the white point is good but there is something wrong with the gray scale, and kicked it up to engineering. That was last Tuesday. I hadn't heard back so called Friday. I was told the engineers were out of town to JP so couldn't communicate with them because of time difference. I asked about putting this on  their DOA policy and shipping me a new monitor and was told that a replacement monitor may not resolve the issue with this series of monitor (???), but that they would have some plan of action by the end of Friday - probably shipping me a monitor. I never heard back on Friday, so plan to call them again on Monday.
Walk softly and carry a big lens

digitaldog

Quote from: Alan Goldhammer on March 10, 2019, 02:37:39 pm
For photo editing the contrast value is way to high.
It's too high for a print but that doesn't mean it's too high for other kinds of image viewing. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the dE errors of gray  (or the amount of gamut).
Doesn't appear to be the instrument. Could be a software bug or an issue with the hardware. But no settings available for the user should produce such high gray deltas.
Andrew Rodney
Author "Color Management for Photographers"

Mark D Segal

Quote from: geneo on March 10, 2019, 03:31:00 pm
They have said the white point is good but there is something wrong with the gray scale, and kicked it up to engineering. That was last Tuesday. I hadn't heard back so called Friday. I was told the engineers were out of town to JP so couldn't communicate with them because of time difference. I asked about putting this on  their DOA policy and shipping me a new monitor and was told that a replacement monitor may not resolve the issue with this series of monitor (???), but that they would have some plan of action by the end of Friday - probably shipping me a monitor. I never heard back on Friday, so plan to call them again on Monday.


OK, not bad - it's on their radar and they made a commitment to continue helping you. Maybe they think it could be a software issue in which case a bit premature to exchange the hardware. I'm sure you know - stay on top of them till you get satisfaction, now that you know these results are unacceptable.
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

geneo

L2 was intimating maybe it was something wrong with the series, hence my post. I am hoping that was just some miscommunication with NEC engineering

BTW, looked back at the lower contrast calibration I did: 250:1 same result.
Walk softly and carry a big lens

1PhotoGuyinNM

I wanted to point out that I recently purchased two new PA271Q monitors and had the same issue that the OP describes.   The greyscale Delta E's were huge whereas the white point values were excellent.  I repeated the calibration process numerous times on both monitors and at different white points, luminance levels and contrast ratios, and could never get the average greyscale Delta E to be under 2 using SpectraView II. In all cases I used a Gamma Curve value of 2.2 and the Color Gamut was set to Native (Full).   The attached file shows the best greyscale result I could achieve after numerous calibration attempts.  The only way I could get a reasonable calibration was when I used DisplayCal.  I ended up returning both of the PA271Q monitors. To me this seems to be an issue with the PA271Q and/or the SpectraView II software.  It should be noted that I was using the latest version of SpectraView II (Version 1.1.39 Build 181031). I also calibrated with the previous version of 1.1.38 and got the same results.

1PhotoGuyinNM

I should also mention that I used the MDSVSENSOR3 that came with the PA271Q for all my calibration attempts using the SpectraView II software.

Czornyj

It's a weird software bug, that's occurs randomly in some PA271Qs for no obvious reason. It will be fixed soon.

geneo

Quote from: Czornyj on March 14, 2019, 07:52:33 am
It's a weird software bug, that's occurs randomly in some PA271Qs for no obvious reason. It will be fixed soon.


Ah, thanks. That is good to hear I reckon. That makes sense from what L2 was hinting at. They are cross shipping me a new monitor in any case, I should be getting it tomorrow. If it exhibits this issue I will just sit on it then.
Walk softly and carry a big lens

1PhotoGuyinNM

Hi Marcin,

Were you able to talk directly with NEC regarding the software bug?   The reason I ask is I have not seen anything from NEC regarding this issue.  Thanks!

digitaldog

My report shown earlier is from a PA271Q, Mac Mojave, custom target, no problems FWIW.
Andrew Rodney
Author "Color Management for Photographers"

Czornyj

Quote from: 1PhotoGuyinNM on March 14, 2019, 11:36:29 am
Hi Marcin,

Were you able to talk directly with NEC regarding the software bug?   The reason I ask is I have not seen anything from NEC regarding this issue.  Thanks!


All I can say is that I managed to get rid of the issue by myself, so it seems not to really be a big problem - and AFAIK it will be addressed by NEC soon.

dehnhaide

Quote from: Czornyj on March 14, 2019, 06:04:00 pm
All I can say is that I managed to get rid of the issue by myself, so it seems not to really be a big problem - and AFAIK it will be addressed by NEC soon.


Why not share with the others / OP the solution for the benefit of all, if there is a solution?!


Czornyj

Quote from: dehnhaide on March 15, 2019, 01:43:16 am
Why not share with the others / OP the solution for the benefit of all, if there is a solution?!


Problem is that I'm not sure how I fixed it...

Frans Waterlander


geneo

Quote from: Frans Waterlander on March 15, 2019, 11:39:27 am
We've all been there, Marcin!


LOL. Well I received the replacement. It is a bit better but not excellent or even great. This is at 500:1 contrast, full color gamut.

@Czornyj Hope you are right. Everything else about the monitor is fine.
Walk softly and carry a big lens

dehnhaide

Quote from: geneo on March 17, 2019, 12:33:20 am
LOL. Well I received the replacement. It is a bit better but not excellent or even great. This is at 500:1 contrast, full color gamut.

@Czornyj Hope you are right. Everything else about the monitor is fine.



This is still not ok not at all ok, I would dare to say, for this type of professional monitor. Can you share the summary page as well? One question though: why 500:1 and lot leave it to the native contrast? Just curious...

Else, I have never tried calibrating it via DiplayCal but that would be an idea to test and see if smth is not wrong with the monitor internals (3D LUT) since DisplayCal can only calibrate it via graphic card LUT adjustments.

When you received your replacement have you received also a new spectrometer?! I still suspect there's an issue with the NEC's version colorimeter!
I don't know what colorimeter DigitalDog is using but I am using a EFI ES-2000 spectrophotometer. Would it be possible to rent another spectrometer to try again?