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Author Topic: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen  (Read 3351 times)

mcbroomf

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LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« on: March 03, 2019, 07:42:10 pm »

I don't use LR to catalog my tifs, they just go to PS for additional editing then get saved as tif or psb files, then flatten to print, but I was helping a friend with a couple of questions about edits in PS vs LR and came across this issue which I could not understand.

System : Win 10 Pro, LR Classic CC, PS CC, both up to date

o Create a VC in LR and open as SO in PS
o Make layer edits (curves etc) in PS and save (not save as).
   Creates Edit.Tif version of the file which shows up in the LR catalog and DOES show the edits I made in PS
o Close the file in PS
o Reopen the file in PS (using Recent file list)
o Make additional edits in PS and save
   Changes do NOT show up in the Edit.Tif version in LR. Check the folder location, PS and LR pointing to the same folder, the Thumbnail in Win10 showing the PS changes
o Close LR
o Reopen LR and the changes are there in LR

I found this, but 1 year+ old and no solution.
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-not-updating-after-edit-in-photoshop

Am I doing something/not doing something?  I checked prefs for some kind of refresh option and could not see one.
I do NOT build Smartpreviews (desktop) and have that option to use for image editing unchecked in the Performance tab

Thanks
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2019, 08:43:00 pm »

Thanks Mark

The first 23 pages of Chapter 7 of Martin Evening's Lightroom CC/Lightroom 6 book deals with this subject in some depth. My understanding is that what you are trying to do in the way you are doing it (your 5th bullet) will not work - i.e. after having done an "Edit in Photoshop" creating a TIFF in Photoshop, once you save it, if you then re-open it in Photoshop from Photoshop the further adjustments that you make in Photoshop will not be ported back to the TIFF image that was saved to your LR catalog.

Yes, that's what I'm seeing, UNLESS I close/reopen LR, then the 2nd PS edits show up.

You would have to select that TIFF image from within LR and then do another "Edit In...." operation to re-open it in Photoshop for further work. Perhaps the best way of working back and forth is to do it via Smart Objects as Martin describes in that Chapter.

Yes, but then the layers have been stamped and they are no longer editable.  They ARE of course if I just continue working on the file in PS and the SO is still available for ACR edits so it's better to work that way, but if I wanted to make a print using LR I'd have to close and reopen LR to get the new PS edited file to show.  A pretty simple work around I suppose.

I use Qimage to print so my files are all flattened for printing and don't go back into LR, but I wanted to see if I was doing something wrong with this workflow.  Looks like LR is acting as it should.

Thanks
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Wayne Fox

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2019, 10:41:59 pm »

I believe if you open the PS file outside of LR, LR doesn’t know to rebuild the preview jpeg it stores.  When you close it the first time, since you came from LR, it adds the file to your LR database and creates a preview from within lightroom,

But in this case, somehow you have to trigger that preview to be rebuilt. Often going to the develop module (which should show the correct version since it builds a preview from the actual file) and back will sometimes fix it. Sometimes zooming into 100% and back out will also trigger the preview to be rebuilt. You should be able to use the menu command to force the preview to be rebuilt as well. And as you discovered quitting LR and reopening it often triggers the preview to be rebuilt.
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 05:02:54 am »

You can also use 'Synchronize Folder…' in the Library module which will update the LR database for a particular folder without having to close LR down and re-open it.

Right click on the relevant folder in the list on the LH pane and select 'Synchronize Folder…' from the menu.

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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2019, 05:54:23 am »

Wayne, Simon, thanks.

Yesterday I had tried flipping between 100% view and back to Fit in Develop as I read that somewhere and it didn't trigger the change.  I rechecked this am and the same.
I switched over to Library and found the filmstrip and navigator had updated but going back to develop it was still the previous version.
I did find that if I select a different image then hover over the edited image both the filmstrip and navigator update, but only until I click on the image, then everything reverts.
I opened the Print module and the image looks correct (ie like the PS version), so I suppose you could print (although I didn't check) although it may be unnerving to see the previous version in Develop
I created a new 1:1 preview and that didn't fix it
I created a smart preview (as in the OP I don't make them) and that seemed to fix it in Develop, although not immediately, and for some reason even though the image looked up to date the histogram was not.  Weird ...
I synced the folder.  1st time it worked but seemed to recreate files from this testing that I'd removed and deleted so I deleted everything again (VC files and EDIT files) and tried it again on a different image and it did work, but seemed to take a little extra time even after the task bar had closed.
Lastly I found that if LR is closed when I make the 2nd edit in PS, then save and open LR the image is up to date.  Not too surprising

Thanks for all your help
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 06:04:45 am »

I always use the grid view in the Library module, so seeing that the filmstrip and navigator thumbnails were updating I wondered if the full view was as well, so I created a new file, did the 2nd edit which did not show up in Develop.
I switched to Library and then to full view from the grid and the image was up to date.
I went back to Develop and it was not, but after switching to another image and back a couple of times it did update without having to Sync
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 07:11:51 am »

I wonder if some of these apparent delays and differences between Library and Develop might have something to do with my video card.  The desktop is pretty new, 1 year old now and I've got a pretty new laptop with separate graphics, so later today I'll create a small catalog on it and go through the same gyrations I did in the posts above to see if anything different happens.  I will do the same on my desktop with the graphics processor turned off.
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john beardsworth

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2019, 09:09:15 am »

I wonder if some of these apparent delays and differences between Library and Develop might have something to do with my video card. 

I don't think so. It's very much as Wayne said - you need something to tickle LR into realizing that the image has changed and it has to rebuild it. So zooming in or going into Develop, or editing the image by going directly from LR to PS.

mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2019, 09:47:48 am »

OK, thanks John ... saved me some time today  :)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2019, 10:12:53 am »

I removed my initial post because the advice I provided there I now discovered in light of subsequent replies is out of date. As this is of general interest to all of us editing back and forth between LR and PS, I decided to do a test from the ground up, step by step to see exactly what happens. The bottom line is that everything updates in LR from PS as it should, except there is just one slight kink in the procedure toward the end that John and Wayne correctly identified. Here is what I determined, just now, using Photoshop CC 2019 and LR Classic CC version 8.2 together; this can be confusing, so follow the sequence of moves carefully:

Editing sequence:

Open photo in LR 8.2 (Figure 1); wall is orange/brown (shot in Angkor Wat Cambodia 2004).
Go to the LR Develop Module and stay there, but No editing.
Go to Edit In > Photoshop CC 2019 (Figure 0)
In PS, add a Color Balance Adjustment Layer and shift Cyan to -43
Save Image, but do not close Photoshop.
Revert to LR, new TIFF-Edit image (left one in filmstrip) looking Cyan appears in filmstrip (Figure 2)
Revert to PS and reset Cyan Color Balance to zero so wall looks brownish again. (Same as Figure 1)
Save photo.
Revert to LR, and the TIFF copy has been updated. (Figure 3)
Now, shut down PS, but leave LR open.
Re-open PS and select the same TIFF (from the File>Recent menu).
Reset the Cyan Balance to -43 so wall looks Cyan and Save. (Figure 4, next reply)
Revert to LR, it will show that nothing has changed. (Same as Figure 3). So here's the "kink":
Deselect all photos in LR by clicking in an empty part of the filmstrip, then click on the one edited in PS.
The filmstrip view updates (Same as Figure 2).






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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2019, 10:15:10 am »

And Figure 4.

One wonders whether this "kink" is a "bug" or a "suggestion for improvement" so this last step of deselecting and selecting in LR should not be necessary.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2019, 11:12:24 am »

Thanks Mark, I'll test that last step to verify on my Windows system ...
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2019, 11:23:40 am »

Ah - OK, forgot about that - should have mentioned I am on Mac OSX High Sierra; but I think (not sure) perhaps the OS doesn't matter to this issue. It will be interesting to see what you come up with. Please let us know.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2019, 11:39:37 am »

Well, interesting ...

I tried both clicking on an empty part of the filmstrip and also using Control-D to deselect.  They both did the same thing and did update the filmstrip thumb, but when I immediately selected that image both the filmstrip and full image reverted to the previous version.  I went back and forth a few times and then it updated.

So I tried this again and got the same response and then wondered if my system might be taking a little longer than yours to update to display the full image (not just filmstrip).  I mentioned before that I got it to update after going to the Library with full view so I did that again (without your last step) and again it took a minute, maybe less to update in Develop.

I checked one last time a different way.  Staying in develop I select another image but then hover the cursor back over the edit file in the filmstrip.  This changes the thumbnail so I just left the cursor there.  I left it for about a minute and then 1st time it updated.

Not really sure but it seems that there are a few ways to get the filmstrip to update, but once you do you have to wait until your system updates the preview so that you can get the full image in Develop.  Yours is updating very quickly Mark so you're not getting the delay I'm seeing.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2019, 11:55:28 am »

That is indeed interesting Mike, because mine does up-date immediately that I implement that last step of clicking in the film strip and then on the TIFF-Edit image.

Are we both using the same versions of LR and PS? They do make under-the-hood improvements to performance efficiency between versions, so that could be a factor explaining our different experience.

Another possibility is perhaps differences of computing power? My MacPro is getting on to being 10 years old, but it's a fairly high powered machine (24GB RAM, 24 virtual cores, 2 Intel Xeon 2.66 GHz processors with hyper-threading. What are your hardware specs?

Not obvious to me whether differences between Windows and OSX should be driving these performance variances, but I simply don't know.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2019, 12:11:13 pm »

Yes, mine is latest/greatest versions of LR/PS, in fact I had to figure out how to get the latest Windows update to get the Details Enhancer to work.

My system is much more recent, 1 year old with an i7-7800, 3.5GHz with 64GB of RAM, separate M2 drives for OS and LR/PS caches and SSD for active Raws and prints.  Apparently not helping here :) although normally it waits for nothing ...
Having written that I just realized that for this test I happened to be using some files from last year that are on a rotating drive so I'll rerun it on some 2019 files which are all on a pair of Raid 0 SATA SSDs
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2019, 12:21:15 pm »

Wow - with that kind of computing power compared with mine this seems like it should be a piece of cake. Wonder what's really going on.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2019, 12:28:36 pm »

Still murky, but another piece of data

I switched over to a file on my SSDs.  And now I'm not having to do anything to get Develop to update.  Just make my 2nd edit in PS, switch to LR and the full image, filmstrip and navigator updates as I watch.  I didn't believe it at 1st so I closed the file again in PS, reopened and made a 3rd edit, that also updated immediately.  Just to be triple sure I deleted the file and opened a different one in PS from LR, made 1st edit, got an update in LR, closed PS, reopened with the same file, did a 2nd edit and saw it update immediately as I switched to LR, again with no intervention.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2019, 12:42:27 pm »

Sounds to me like you've licked it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mcbroomf

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Re: LR Classic CC not showing PS edits unless LR close/reopen
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2019, 01:52:02 pm »

Yes (even though for me, I don't use that workflow).  At least we found a couple of workarounds as well

Thanks again
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