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Author Topic: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?  (Read 13443 times)

faberryman

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2019, 04:38:04 pm »

Are you better off with a 10-bit 2560x1600 display or a 8-bit 4K or 5K display?
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digitaldog

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2019, 04:40:39 pm »

There's no banding in color or gray; thats what counts. That was not always the case and that's what counts.
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dehnhaide

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2019, 04:41:30 pm »

Are you better off with a 10-bit 2560x1600 display or a 8-bit 4K or 5K display?
No banding... Irrespective of resolution.


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faberryman

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2019, 04:43:34 pm »

No banding... Irrespective of resolution.
I have never noticed banding in images on my display until I downloaded that image which shows it. Am I just not critical enough?
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dehnhaide

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2019, 04:49:26 pm »

I have never noticed banding in images on my display until I downloaded that image which shows it. Am I just not critical enough?
I wouldn't dare questioning your "critical" eye... For me it started organically: since I'm much into BW fineart my gradations were absolutely horrendous on my last Dell using GTX-1080ti, 8bit. I wasn't checking it mathematically but eventually the results were a major let down. And 1024 levels of gray vs 256... God, it shows!
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digitaldog

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2019, 05:31:44 pm »

I have never noticed banding in images on my display until I downloaded that image which shows it. Am I just not critical enough?
I'd say it is the least important attribute of a display system. And with a high bit panel, but without other high bit components like a video card, it's pretty minimal and you really need to consider the zoom ratio when editing as it can affect what appears as banding. Plus if you're working with high bit data, any banding you do see, you know is in the display path, not the image data.
Wide gamut, purity over the entire display; far, far more important attribute of the display. Ability to load calibrations in the panel and build multiple calibration targets; far more important.
Resolution (4K or more) I don't find at all useful and often, depending on UI scaling, a problem.
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saiguy

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2019, 09:34:24 pm »

I use a MBP 2012 vintage retina and a EIZO CS240 A1998 gamut display. Viewing Andrews 10 bit gradient in Library LR mode I see lots of vertical banding. But viewing in Develop panel I see no banding on either screen. I doubt either of these screens are 10 bit displays, but could be wrong on that.

Maybe I'm just lucky.
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digitaldog

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2019, 09:40:53 pm »

Library and Develop use vastly different preview architecture. All modules except Develop are using JPEGs for one so what you reported sounds logical.
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Panagiotis

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2019, 01:05:21 am »

Looking at the Quadro P2000 and the Quadro P4000, most folks getting a workstation card just for 10bit color in Photoshop seem to opt for the P2000 at about $300 less than the P4000.
Using the card essentially for that purpose, anyone with more knowledge of these cards know if the P4000 has any big advantage over the P2000? I see more CUDA cores, and the P2000 is 5GB RAM while the P4000 is 8GB RAM. Not sure if those specs add up to the P4000 having any big real world advantage.

I wonder the same. From what I understand even the P400 which is the cheapest one supports 10 bit monitor output. Is it adequate?
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dehnhaide

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Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2019, 01:09:52 am »

I wonder the same. From what I understand even the P400 which is the cheapest one supports 10 bit monitor output. Is it adequate?
It could be fine though... There still needs to be some raw power to be used by PS for OpenGL acceleration.
From pure specifications perspective it's fine since it supports DP and high resolution and 10bits!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 01:13:50 am by dehnhaide »
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aaron125

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2019, 01:15:55 am »

I wonder the same. From what I understand even the P400 which is the cheapest one supports 10 bit monitor output. Is it adequate?
That would really depend on what you seem to be adequate. For example, if you’re running two 4k screens, and I’ve no idea of the P400’s specs, then if it has, say, just 1-2GB ram, it definitely wouldn’t be adequate as that isn’t enough ram to support two 4k screens, remembering that the amount of onboard ram required is determined purely by what resolution one is running. Another example could be the number of processing cores it has, nVidia calls them CUDA cores, might not be enough for smooth and responsive scrolling, zooming, moving the image around the Ps workspace and anything else which Ps expressly uses the gpu to carry out a particular function.

In the end, only you can determine what is adequate because what’s adequate performance for you might be absolutely dismal performance for someone else.


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Panagiotis

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2019, 01:20:11 am »

Thank you both for your replies. It starts to get clear.
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vikcious

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2019, 03:03:17 am »

For a full high bit path, the OS, application, display and video card all need high bit support. So it depends. But for a modern version of Photoshop and Mac or Windows, and the other items supporting high bit, there should be no visible banding.
Hi Andrew,

Could you please be so kind and share a screenshot of how the 10-bit-test-ramp should display correctly on an 10bit enabled driver in PS, please. I guess it would help the other fellows, including myself, what to expect.

Also, can you please download and run NEC's 10 bits DEMO and see if it works for you?
For me it throws an "ERROR: 10 bit video is either not supported, or not currently enabled on this video card." although I'm hooked to a AMD FireProW7100 with the same display as yours.

Thanks a lot. 
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Dave Rosser

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2019, 03:17:02 am »

Hi Andrew,

Could you please be so kind and share a screenshot of how the 10-bit-test-ramp should display correctly on an 10bit enabled driver in PS, please. I guess it would help the other fellows, including myself, what to expect.

Also, can you please download and run NEC's 10 bits DEMO and see if it works for you?
For me it throws an "ERROR: 10 bit video is either not supported, or not currently enabled on this video card." although I'm hooked to a AMD FireProW7100 with the same display as yours.

Thanks a lot.
Have you set up 10 bit display in the FirePro driver?  How to do it seems to change every now and again with driver updates.

Dave
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vikcious

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2019, 03:53:39 am »

Have you set up 10 bit display in the FirePro driver?  How to do it seems to change every now and again with driver updates.

Dave

Hi Dave,

In the FirePro settings (via right click on the desktop) I choose "Display" tab an select "Color Depth: 10bpc".
I know it's working cause otherwise the NEC will only show "RGB" in the info panel instead of "RGB 10 bit" as it currently shows.

But this is DirectX, desktop only settings... for PS settings, although set right I still have doubts is working correctly in 10bits... :( That's why I'm looking for someone with a similar setup I could cross check with.
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vikcious

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2019, 04:08:02 am »

Have you set up 10 bit display in the FirePro driver?  How to do it seems to change every now and again with driver updates.

Dave

Waaaaaaaait a moment! I have just found out the secret of 10bits on FirePro and eventually enabled it:
You need to go to Advanced Settings (same right click on the desktop) and from there you need to enable "Enable 10-bit pixel format support".... So it looks like only this setting will enable the PS to use the 10 bpc, eventually.

Thank you AMD for confusing users, yet again! How stupid to have 2 similar settings that deal with the same setting in a different way!!!
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vikcious

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2019, 04:08:59 am »

Hi Andrew,

Could you please be so kind and share a screenshot of how the 10-bit-test-ramp should display correctly on an 10bit enabled driver in PS, please. I guess it would help the other fellows, including myself, what to expect.

Also, can you please download and run NEC's 10 bits DEMO and see if it works for you?
For me it throws an "ERROR: 10 bit video is either not supported, or not currently enabled on this video card." although I'm hooked to a AMD FireProW7100 with the same display as yours.

Thanks a lot.

Hi Andrew,

No need for testing anymore. I have managed to fix it myself. Thanks! ;)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2019, 07:50:25 am »

I'd say it is the least important attribute of a display system. And with a high bit panel, but without other high bit components like a video card, it's pretty minimal and you really need to consider the zoom ratio when editing as it can affect what appears as banding. Plus if you're working with high bit data, any banding you do see, you know is in the display path, not the image data.
Wide gamut, purity over the entire display; far, far more important attribute of the display. Ability to load calibrations in the panel and build multiple calibration targets; far more important.
Resolution (4K or more) I don't find at all useful and often, depending on UI scaling, a problem.
I have a regular NVIDIA GPU with DirectX so I cannot run 10 bit off of it.  My NEC monitor is a Spectraview but does not support native 10 bit even if I had a Quadro card.  When I open Andrew's image in PS I do see banding but it's really quite faint.  Since I mainly use LR the banding issue is really not that important for me. 
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Daverich

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2019, 03:32:16 pm »

I use Photoshop CS6 on a Mac and don't get the option to display in 10 bit. I'm hoping someone can tell me which part of my system is the problem. I use a 20113 MacPro running OS 10.13 with an AMD FirePro D300 graphics card, an NEC PA 272W monitor and CS6. In the system report it says the monitor supports 30 bit color so maybe that's not it. I'm under the impression that CS6 supports 10 bit display under Windows but maybe not on a Mac? Can anyone tell me where the limitation is in my system? Thanks.
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digitaldog

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Re: Quadro card - 10bit - worth it?
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2019, 03:35:51 pm »

I use Photoshop CS6 on a Mac and don't get the option to display in 10 bit. I'm hoping someone can tell me which part of my system is the problem. I use a 20113 MacPro running OS 10.13 with an AMD FirePro D300 graphics card, an NEC PA 272W monitor and CS6. In the system report it says the monitor supports 30 bit color so maybe that's not it. I'm under the impression that CS6 supports 10 bit display under Windows but maybe not on a Mac? Can anyone tell me where the limitation is in my system? Thanks.
https://www.slrlounge.com/10-bit-support-now-available-for-photoshop-cc-in-os-x/
I think that version is too old.
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