Looking for Alternative to Palo Duro Etching - any Canon papers?

[JudyKonopka]

Hi, I ran into a coating problem with Palo Duro Etching.  Although it's a nice paper, I think I am interested in a brighter, smoother paper just as thick as Palo Duro. Preferably one I can order at B&H and have it here within one day. Any suggestions?  Thanks!

[Mark D Segal]

Epson Legacy Etching or Hahnemuehle Museum Etching or German Etching.

[howardm]

Canson-Infinity also have an extensive selection of 'similar' textured papers (season to taste).

I've found it vital to have an actual sample in-hand for deciding which texture is for me (Goldilocks!)

[Alan Goldhammer]

Hahnemuhle William Turner is another great choice.  It's one of the brightest textured papers that I've tried and I use it quite often.  310 gsm is just the weight you want for the image you posted.

[stockjock]

How much texture do you want?  The Canson Rag Photographique/Epson Legacy Fibre is a very smooth and white matte paper and it has exceptional dmax and gamut.  But it doesn't have any of the "character" that a texture paper does.  Its thickness should be quite similar to the Palo Duro Etching.

[JudyKonopka]

Hahnemuhle William Turner is another great choice.  It's one of the brightest textured papers that I've tried and I use it quite often.  310 gsm is just the weight you want for the image you posted.

Is it smooth?

[JudyKonopka]

Epson Legacy Etching or Hahnemuehle Museum Etching or German Etching.

Are these smooth or as textured as Palo Duro?  I did note I was looking for something a bit smoother without as much texture (not sure if all Etchings are textured...thanks.

[Mark D Segal]

As far as I have seen, all the etching papers are textured. The differences between them would not be large. There are very few paper mills actually manufacturing this stuff, so the resellers/rebranders are getting them from the same places usually with minor variants of the same recipes. If you are not too far from a good shop selling these papers, the best is to go in and see their sample books. Otherwise buy the smallest possible packaging from several and try them, see what you like best. It's really hard to differentiate paper over the internet, especially as every one has different taste and a different way of representing them.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Is it smooth?

Not at all. More tooth in thé texture than Museum Etching has. German Etching is in between.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.

[rasworth]

If you truly want smooth, consider Canon Premium Fine Art Smooth.  Mark has written a favorable review.

Richard Southworth

[JudyKonopka]

If you truly want smooth, consider Canon Premium Fine Art Smooth.  Mark has written a favorable review.

Richard Southworth

Thank you - will look into it.

[Mark D Segal]

If you truly want smooth, consider Canon Premium Fine Art Smooth.  Mark has written a favorable review.

Richard Southworth

Correct Richard, and I still think it's a superb paper. But Judy - it really is SMOOTH - like NO tooth. So if you want SOME tooth along with SOME rough, that wouldn't be the right choice. -:).

[howardm]

other papers in the 'almost but not quite' smooth might include:

Hahn Bamboo (maybe SugarCane)
Canson Edition Etching (low tooth)
Canson BFK Rives (nee Printmaking Rag (breathtaking paper and price to match!))
Canson Arches Velin Rag
Moab/Epson Somerset Rag

(and totally agree w/ others on the Canon FA SMOOTH!)

[Mark D Segal]

Hahn Bamboo substrate is not sugar cane, it's bamboo. I have a box of that here. I like it - nice paper, but it's quite a bit on the warm side; fairly smooth surface texture. It's one I've reviewed on this website.

[howardm]

I have a small sample of both, Bamboo and Sugar Cane.  Did they drop Sugar Cane from the product line?

[Mark D Segal]

I didn't know they had it and haven't seen a mention of it in their recent line-up - this would have been most likely bagasse (the dry pulpy residue left after the extraction of juice from sugar cane), from which paper can be made.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Is it smooth?

No, it textured.  Probably more texture than Palo Duro. (posted before I saw Ernst's comment). 

I do a lot of printing on Hahnemuhle Bamboo and as Mark noted it is a warm paper and you need to carefully think about what images to print on it.  If you are looking for something smooth, you should look at Moab Entrada which has been around for some time and has very good preservation qualities.  It's my go to matte paper these days.

[Alan Goldhammer]

I have a small sample of both, Bamboo and Sugar Cane.  Did they drop Sugar Cane from the product line?

They no longer list Sugar Cane on their website but there are some dealers who still have stock.

For Judy - https://www.hahnemuehle.com/en/digital-fineart/fineart-media/matt-fineart-textured.html  has some pretty good pictures showing the various textured papers so you can at least see how much texture is on each one.

[Ernst Dinkla]

I didn't know they had it and haven't seen a mention of it in their recent line-up - this would have been most likely bagasse (the dry pulpy residue left after the extraction of juice from sugar cane), from which paper can be made.

I expect that too and in a sense it is more ecological sound than the use of bamboo. IMHO.  Nevertheless they stopped with the SugarCane quality. BTW with the SugarCane quality you had to be careful in which direction to use it, the texture was quite linear and having it horizontal or vertical on the wall with spots illumination the overall image changed in tone.

Texture could be described but it gets quite complex. The hills and valleys can be peaky with a high frequency between them (William Turner) or rounded off and with low frequency (Museum Etching). Dolomites versus Vosges for a European. It can get way more complex than that:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/1-Comparison-of-surface-texture-parameters-and-standards_tbl1_221973895   Whether centuries old paper mills would like to classify their unique products within standards has to be seen. I doubt the marketing department would agree on that.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Mark D Segal]

Actually, the item just below that table - Cleanability of Certain Stainless Steel Finishes in the Brewing Process - would probably be of more practical concern to me   

But on a more serious note - interesting table just to see the listing of the variety of factors that go into the description of a paper surface. I have long thought that differences in the accuracy of tone/colour reproduction achievable from these papers and their profiles could be explained in part by some of these physical characteristics of the paper surfaces.