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Author Topic: Lightroom 8.2  (Read 4394 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2019, 01:10:01 pm »

...That's why I ask. Not driving at anything in particular  :)

It was a figure of speech :)

The good thing this addition is free of charge.

For those who print big, and I am one of them (biggest being 36" x 48" (or 1.2m), being able to start post-processing with a potentially cleaner image might mean a better print at that size.

I recently visited a National Geographic gallery where they had a 2m (80") wide print of a lion's head. Whiskers, diagonal, had very visible stair-step edges, instead of a smooth line. Some existing interpolation programs can do a better job at diagonals, but anything that might help from the very beginning is a welcome addition.

This is just an illustration of the artifact:

rabanito

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2019, 01:44:57 pm »


This is just an illustration of the artifact:

I see.
Thanks Slobodan  :)
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Chris Kern

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2019, 03:59:22 pm »

Would somebody explain why would anybody use "Enhanced Details"?

Superior rendering. Simple as that. Yeah, it can be very subtle but it's also visible.

Plus, for those of us who use Fuji X cameras—I'm still testing as, I'm sure, are many other Fuji shooters—the Enhanced Details option may finally fix some particular deficiencies in Lightroom's handling of X-Trans files.  Many Lightroom users have been resorting to demosaicing certain types of detailed images with third-party apps; it would be nice to be able to do everything in LR and still get the very fine, artifact-free edge acuity such images demand.  (With sufficiently powerful hardware, it will also be a time-saver: my 2013 Mac Pro has been able perform the additional processing of every file I've thrown at it so far in 10-20 seconds, which is much faster than a round-trip through a third-party app—e.g., Iridient X-Transformer.)

adias

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2019, 04:13:36 pm »

Why isn't this new RAW rendering be simply an option in the workflow? Standard or Enhanced without a need for an additional (rather large) DNG file?
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Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2019, 04:14:24 pm »

I'm still testing as, I'm sure, are many other Fuji shooters—the Enhanced Details option may finally fix some particular deficiencies in Lightroom's handling of X-Trans files.

Unfortunately not much has changed. It improves the image by a tiny bit, but Iridient is still way sharper and with less artefacts. "Enhance Details" reduces worms, but causes weird variations in how noise is rendered.

it would be nice to be able to do everything in LR and still get the very fine, artifact-free edge acuity such images demand.

While "Enhance Details" allows you to stay within Lightroom, you still need to create (and manage) an extra DNG file for every image. Personally, this doesn't save me anything. I wish Lightroom would simply do a better job on the original files, without extra steps and extra files.

(With sufficiently powerful hardware, it will also be a time-saver: my 2013 Mac Pro has been able perform the additional processing of every file I've thrown at it so far in 10-20 seconds, which is much faster than a round-trip through a third-party app—e.g., Iridient X-Transformer.)

Iridient is pretty slow, but it takes about 1 seconds per image here, vastly faster than "Enhance Details". You don't need to send images to Iridient one by one, you can send hundreds of images at once.
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Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2019, 04:15:02 pm »

Why isn't this new RAW rendering be simply an option in the workflow? Standard or Enhanced without a need for an additional (rather large) DNG file?

Good question. I guess because it takes an immense amount of time to process an image compared to the traditional process.
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digitaldog

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2019, 04:28:41 pm »

Why isn't this new RAW rendering be simply an option in the workflow? Standard or Enhanced without a need for an additional (rather large) DNG file?
Because the process takes place on rendered data. Maybe someday it can take place directly on raw without conversion to linear DNG but that's not the case today.
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Andrew Rodney
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Chris Kern

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 05:33:15 pm »

Unfortunately not much has changed. It improves the image by a tiny bit, but Iridient is still way sharper and with less artefacts. "Enhance Details" reduces worms, but causes weird variations in how noise is rendered.

I gather you already have been testing X-Trans files with Enhanced Details for quite a while; I had no early access to LR 8.2, am just beginning to explore the new feature, and am trying to figure out what files to select for my own tests.  Have you noticed types of images where the new rendering method does particularly well or particularly badly?  Could you post some examples?  (Preferably with 1:1 crops of significant features where LR does better or worse.)

Rhossydd

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2019, 06:13:24 pm »

The good thing this addition is free of charge.
NO, you only get it as part of a paid for subscription.
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adias

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2019, 06:16:33 pm »

Because the process takes place on rendered data. Maybe someday it can take place directly on raw without conversion to linear DNG but that's not the case today.

So if not a RAW converter process, then it may be similar to what Focus Magic does...
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digitaldog

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2019, 06:26:50 pm »

I have no idea what Focus Magic does. Sorry.
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Andrew Rodney
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Arlen

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2019, 06:53:16 pm »

I gather you already have been testing X-Trans files with Enhanced Details for quite a while; I had no early access to LR 8.2, am just beginning to explore the new feature, and am trying to figure out what files to select for my own tests.  Have you noticed types of images where the new rendering method does particularly well or particularly badly?  Could you post some examples?  (Preferably with 1:1 crops of significant features where LR does better or worse.)

If you check out the web page that Slobodan linked to on the first page of this thread, you'll find a description of the types of images that benefit the most from this new feature.
https://laurashoe.com/2019/02/12/enhance-raw-file-details-in-lightroom-classic-cc-and-lightroom-cc
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2019, 07:10:38 pm »

NO, you only get it as part of a paid for subscription.

So, how is that not a free addition to the paid subscription? What other LR 8.2 is out there?

FranciscoDisilvestro

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2019, 08:14:57 pm »

So, how is that not a free addition to the paid subscription? What other LR 8.2 is out there?

One of the promises of the paid subscription is the continuous incorporation of new functionalities, so I would also say that the AI Enhanced Details is part of what you get by paying

DP

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2019, 08:41:17 pm »

Because the process takes place on rendered data. Maybe someday it can take place directly on raw without conversion to linear DNG but that's not the case today.

the mere fact that it has to create a specific linear (means demosaicked) DNG says that it takes (in part !!!) place on raw data (as it does not work on linear DNGs created w/ other means)
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digitaldog

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2019, 08:44:44 pm »

the mere fact that it has to create a specific linear (means demosaicked) DNG says that it takes (in part !!!) place on raw data (as it does not work on linear DNGs created w/ other means)
Perhaps but the results of the new feature isn't the raw, it's partially rendered data from there on out. Of course the raw data is used to do anything that results in processing that raw data.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

DP

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2019, 08:45:32 pm »

Why on earth are there people still using Windows!?

probably because they have brains and hands...
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DP

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2019, 08:47:26 pm »

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digitaldog

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2019, 08:49:24 pm »



There there are essentially two DNG's in the container, the one not affected and the one processed with Enhanced Detail. So other products can still access the DNG but it doesn't access the Enhanced Detail part of the DNG (perhaps because that spec hasn't been provided... yet).
In LR, if one produces such a DNG and then uses the Update DNG Preview and Metadata command, the JPEG a result of the Enhanced Detail processing.

Interesting titbit just provided by Simon Chen of Adobe.
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Andrew Rodney
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digitaldog

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Re: Lightroom 8.2
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2019, 08:53:13 pm »

certainly...
And utterly unimportant.  :P
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"
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