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Author Topic: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?  (Read 883 times)

tonysiciliano1

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I've been struggling making a print that has lots of yellows, greens, oranges, and reds, and the color rendition in LR is off. The yellows come out way more orange, the oranges and reds come out more brownish, and the greens get lost because they become more yellow. I have a NEC PA 302W 30 inch monitor with Spectraview II calibration software and hardware, recently calibrated. I have been using D65 color temp, 85 cd/m2 for luminance, and Gamma Curve 2.2. I use a Mac with High Sierra, and the latest versions of LR and PS. My prints are in ProPhoto color space, saved as Tiffs. I am printing on an Epson 3880 using Epson Premium Luster paper with the canned ICC profile and printing at 360 dpi. No, I am not letting the printer manage colors. To print, I find the photo in the LR library and then go to the Print Module and print from there. I have been given several suggestions by others to print in Photoshop rather than Lightroom because its color rendition is better. Is this really a general consensus? If so, why does PS render better color than LR? Don't they share much of the "guts"? I vastly prefer the ease of printing in LR over Photoshop, but would consider switching to PS if indeed color rendition is better.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 09:52:31 pm by tonysiciliano1 »
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JeanMichel

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2019, 10:12:28 pm »

First question: do you soft-proof your image (in PS or LR) before sending the file to print?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2019, 10:17:08 pm »

The short answer is no: there should be no difference of results between printing from Ps or Lr if all the settings in both the applications and the printer driver are the same between the two applications.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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tonysiciliano1

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 12:10:28 am »

JeanMichel, yes, I do all my editing in Photoshop and do a soft proof and more editing for photos I plan to print. Thank you Mark for your reply. I've been printing for almost ten years and have never heard of differences in color rendering between PS and LR!
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dehnhaide

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Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 01:30:57 am »

This reminds me of a similar case we've seen a couple of weeks ago where quite a lot of the colors in the target image were clearly proven (by Doug if I remember correctly) to be out of gamut when matched to the printer's gamut. Could you please check with Gamutvision or a similar software if this is the case?
And you're not saying if you're printing using Perceptual or RelCol rendering, though I suspect, given the details, you're using Perceptual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 08:13:46 am by dehnhaide »
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2019, 02:03:29 am »

The short answer is no: there should be no difference of results between printing from Ps or Lr if all the settings in both the applications and the printer driver are the same between the two applications.
This is the answer to the simple question that was ask. Which monitor, how it’s calibrated,  or if it has been soft proofed doesn’t matter, if the same  file is printed from Lightroom and from Photoshop they should render the colors identically.  If not, something isn’t right, some settings are incorrect in one of the two applications.

One thing I might mention, there have been random issues of something getting messed up when upgrading to high Sierra and colors not printing correctly. very sporadic and random but I had issues like this.  I never tested whether PS printed OK because I never print from PS, but I went through the process of what Andrew Rodney has nicknamed the “epson enema” to remove all epson drivers and software, reinstalled the driver and everything was back to normal.  might be worth a try.
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Garnick

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2019, 07:42:45 am »

Yes indeed, The Epson Enema  :o  I believe it was Mark D. S. who first offered this very important information to this forum quite some time ago.  He had apparently been talking with an Epson Tech and was advised about how to totally delete an Epson printer driver on a Mac.  It would likely be a different path on a Windows machine, not sure.  If you delete the driver in System Prefs that's just the start.  You must also trash the Epson Folder in the System Library and then restart the computer in order to get rid of all Epson driver bits and pieces that could interfere with any new drivers you might need to install.  It's a real PITA if you have more than one Epson driver, but it's apparently the only way to be sure you're working with a "clean" system for a new driver installation or perhaps a reinstall.  Since that advice from Mark I have always followed this procedure and never had an issue with a new driver installation.

Gary   
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Gary N.
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HarveyM43

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 08:01:10 am »

Aside from the advice allready offered, I wonder if this video might help; it shows using the out of gamut tool to help adjust your colours back into the colorspace-

Using the Out of Gamut Warning tool in Adobe Lightroom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxQVl6zpeCU
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Garnick

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 09:57:20 am »

Aside from the advice allready offered, I wonder if this video might help; it shows using the out of gamut tool to help adjust your colours back into the colorspace-

Using the Out of Gamut Warning tool in Adobe Lightroom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxQVl6zpeCU

Of the members here who's advise, opinions and insight I tend to accept and follow, I imagine most of them would probably agree that the OOG tool is just about as close to useless as it gets.  There will of course be diverging opinions, and that's what LuLa is all about.  However, there are at least three members I am waiting to hear from on this topic.  No names mentioned (AR).

Gary
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Gary N.
"My memory isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact it never was." (gan)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 10:14:28 am »

Of the members here who's advise, opinions and insight I tend to accept and follow, I imagine most of them would probably agree that the OOG tool is just about as close to useless as it gets.  ...........
Gary

I look for gamut clipping of highlights and shadows by seeing whether the tails of the histogram are climbing the walls, and for the rest of it, if I suspect saturation clipping I just back-off the saturation to see whether more detail gets revealed and guide myself accordingly.

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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 10:22:02 am »


The Out Of Gamut Overlay in Photoshop and Lightroom

In this 25 minute video, I'll cover everything you need to know about the Out Of Gamut (OOG) overlay in Photoshop and Lightroom. You'll see why, with a rare exception, you can ignore this very old feature and still deal with out of gamut colors using modern color management tools.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00O-GTDyL0w
High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/OOG_Video.mp4
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

HarveyM43

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 10:41:05 am »

Thanks for the pointers, I'll check them out.

Edit: I've watched the video, I've got a much better idea of the pitfalls now; Thanks!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 01:16:41 pm by HarveyM43 »
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Doug Gray

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 01:54:28 pm »

I look for gamut clipping of highlights and shadows by seeing whether the tails of the histogram are climbing the walls, and for the rest of it, if I suspect saturation clipping I just back-off the saturation to see whether more detail gets revealed and guide myself accordingly.

That's a very good technique Mark. In Photoshop, I like to zoom in by selecting a small area and moving it around in suspect areas. The histogram only covers what's inside the selection so it's super easy to zero in on problem areas.
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Garnick

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2019, 02:15:39 pm »

I look for gamut clipping of highlights and shadows by seeing whether the tails of the histogram are climbing the walls, and for the rest of it, if I suspect saturation clipping I just back-off the saturation to see whether more detail gets revealed and guide myself accordingly.

+ 1 Mark -- That's the basic method I use for such issues.  If I need to do some local adjustments to an image, saturation etc., I simply apply an overall adjustment while viewing only the area I want to affect.  I then select the layer mask, fill with black and brush in the adjustment exactly where I want it.  It seems to be easier and more precise than making a selection first and then applying that to the adjustment's layer mask.  Of course in the end it all amounts to the same thing, but much easier in my opinion, since I can see the results in real time and simply paint with black if I go too far over the area I need to adjust.  And of course I can then finesse the adjustment as needed from that point forward.

Gary     
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Gary N.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 12:11:55 pm »

From the original post ...
I have been given several suggestions by others to print in Photoshop rather than Lightroom because its color rendition is better. Is this really a general consensus? If so, why does PS render better color than LR? Don't they share much of the "guts"? I vastly prefer the ease of printing in LR over Photoshop, but would consider switching to PS if indeed color rendition is better.
While the information about gamut, gamut clipping etc is useful, this really doesn’t seem to be part of the question.  He’s complaining about the colors he’s getting when printing from LR as compared to the same file printed from PS, which shouldn’t be happening.
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tonysiciliano1

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 12:56:56 pm »

Thanks for the replies. Actually, I'm not complaining about getting different color results in LR and Photoshop. I've not made any prints using Photoshop. I'm asking "Should I try printing in Photoshop? Could I get better color results than printing in LR?"
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digitaldog

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 01:20:45 pm »

Thanks for the replies. Actually, I'm not complaining about getting different color results in LR and Photoshop. I've not made any prints using Photoshop. I'm asking "Should I try printing in Photoshop? Could I get better color results than printing in LR?"
Again, expect for the sharpening routines, no difference. Use whatever you prefer.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers"

JeanMichel

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Re: Does printing in PS give better color rendition that printing in LR?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 03:19:23 pm »

One advantage of printing in LR, even if a file is processed in PS, is that once you have a file adjusted to you want and need, that single file can be used to print in LR in any number of sizes (well, within reason of course). No need for separate PS files for a tiny, medium or large prints.

And, if you do not need to do a PS trip, you can just work and print the RAW file. The RAW, or DNG, files do not need to be inflated into a TIFF, taking that much more storage space. 
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