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Author Topic: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?  (Read 1307 times)

mshea

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Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« on: January 16, 2019, 03:59:46 pm »

On a somewhat related topic to my other post on "blooming" with the 17mm T/S lens, I'm often shooting in confined situations (i.e., a tall building on a narrow street) where I'm forced to take three images, two of them shifted, to produce a pano. I then make lens corrections in LR. The results can sometimes be less than optimal, as vertical architectural details may not be truly straight, and no amount of lens correction in LR,  DXO, or any other app I've tried, gives me the desired result. So, I'm wondering if there's another lens and T/S system I could use, along with my a7RIII, so I could avoid the three-image pano solution.

Merrill
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David Eichler

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 04:33:07 pm »

On a somewhat related topic to my other post on "blooming" with the 17mm T/S lens, I'm often shooting in confined situations (i.e., a tall building on a narrow street) where I'm forced to take three images, two of them shifted, to produce a pano. I then make lens corrections in LR. The results can sometimes be less than optimal, as vertical architectural details may not be truly straight, and no amount of lens correction in LR,  DXO, or any other app I've tried, gives me the desired result. So, I'm wondering if there's another lens and T/S system I could use, along with my a7RIII, so I could avoid the three-image pano solution.

Merrill

If it is taking you three panoed images to encompass the width of what you are trying to shoot, I can't really see any alternative, with or without a shift feature. Maybe there are some options that would only require two component images, but I think that is about it. If it is more a matter of a shift limitation with respect to height, then some kind of a technical camera, used in conjunction with a very wide lens that has a larger image circle might work in some cases, but it depends upon the particular subject and how much room you have to shoot it, but I think that means looking at medium format.
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MichaelEzra

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 05:04:01 pm »

Depending on resolution requirements of the final image, if sufficient, for efficiency and in extremely confined location you could shoot with a Rectilinear fisheye lens. Sigma 15mm F2.8 has excellent defishing in Camera Raw and resulting images have straight lines. In fact, I was using this lens to do panoramic stitching and that also works very well. The angle is wider than 17, so you get much more coverage.
These virtual tours were shot on Sigma 15mm: http://www.kuk-art.net/exhibitions
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 05:10:04 pm by MichaelEzra »
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 12:22:06 pm »

One way to get a wider tilt shift than the 17mm Canon lens would be to use an adapter that has a shiftable component like the Laowa Magic Shift Converter.  You will not be able to control aperture with any Canon EF lens though.  You would need to get a Nikon wide lens that has a mechanical aperture linkage or an aperture ring.  All Nikon lenses except those that have an E after the aperture in their name would be capable of that using the aperture control in the shift adapter or of course if the lens has an aperture ring...  Any ultra wide third party Nikon mount lens that has either an aperture ring or does not have fully electronic (E) aperture control would also work.  That is just about every third party ultra wide on the planet EXCEPT Sigma Art lenses like the 14mm which also has fully electronic aperture control.  The amount of shift that you can do before some blanking of the frame occurs would be dependent on how large the lens's exit pupil is.

If all of this is confusing, it often is for Canon shooters who have always had fully electronic aperture control since the introduction of the EOS mount and aren't familiar with the nuances of the various flavors of Nikon F mount, let me know and I'll try to further clarify
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 12:44:28 pm by E.J. Peiker »
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Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 12:53:32 pm »

The Canon 17mm Tilt-Shift is the widest rectilinear lens on the planet (once you account for the entirety of the image circle). I'm afraid there is no way to get more wider than that.
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Dan Wells

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2019, 10:49:06 am »

Are you sure that the (expensive) Canon 11-24 mm zoom isn't wider? I'd be very surprised if it worked on a shift adapter without running out of image circle right away...

The other question (I don't know if it would be wider, and it would require a larger sensor) is a 23mm lens for a technical camera. Could you shift a 23mm on medium format film or a digital back? Would it be two shifts instead of three? To stay digital would probably be well over $20,000, though...
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 10:54:07 am by Dan Wells »
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2019, 04:33:54 pm »

This video shows the shift converter being used with the Laowa 12mm f/2.8 on an a7R II body and it seems to work pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93QlRzs0OHg
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David Eichler

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2019, 05:21:29 pm »

This video shows the shift converter being used with the Laowa 12mm f/2.8 on an a7R II body and it seems to work pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93QlRzs0OHg

That combination yields a 17mm focal length.
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Shiftworker

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2019, 03:25:51 am »

On a somewhat related topic to my other post on "blooming" with the 17mm T/S lens, I'm often shooting in confined situations (i.e., a tall building on a narrow street) where I'm forced to take three images, two of them shifted, to produce a pano. I then make lens corrections in LR. The results can sometimes be less than optimal, as vertical architectural details may not be truly straight, and no amount of lens correction in LR,  DXO, or any other app I've tried, gives me the desired result. So, I'm wondering if there's another lens and T/S system I could use, along with my a7RIII, so I could avoid the three-image pano solution.

Merrill
Have you tried PTGUI? I'm suprised you can't correct the verticals in the LR lens correction tools. Can you post an example?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2019, 08:31:15 am »

Have you tried PTGUI? I'm surprised you can't correct the verticals in the LR lens correction tools. Can you post an example?

+1

Cheers,
Bart
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Aram Hăvărneanu

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2019, 08:38:23 am »

Are you sure that the (expensive) Canon 11-24 mm zoom isn't wider? I'd be very surprised if it worked on a shift adapter without running out of image circle right away...

Hi Dan, I think they are very close, but the TS is still wider, Depending on the various numbers you can get for the TS image circle, it would be equivalent to somewhere between 10.2-10.7mm on full frame.

Of course the 11-24 might not be exactly 11mm, and the edge quality of the TS might compare unfavorably with the zoom.
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Dan Wells

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2019, 01:58:31 am »

Someone's going to do a full-frame rectilinear 10mm (or even a 9mm) that covers full-frame for one of the very wide throat, short depth mirrorless mounts?!?! Canon has gotten both the 17 TS and the 11-24 to work on the EF mount... That surely means something wider is possible, although not here yet, for Z-mount or EF-R.

If I had to guess, Canon comes out with a 10-24 or 9-18mm EF-R lens in the next couple of years - big, heavy, expensive and largely saying "Hey Nikon, look what we can do!", although it has practical applications. Nikon replies with a some oddity like a 6mm fisheye with a field of view of 220 degrees - they actually had one for the F mount, although it would be much easier in Z mount! I suspect they'll race each other at some point with odd wide angles that are made possible (or practical - nobody ever called that old 6mm Nikkor practical) by the mirrorless mounts, much as they are now with very fast lenses...
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2019, 07:31:12 am »

Someone's going to do a full-frame rectilinear 10mm (or even a 9mm) that covers full-frame for one of the very wide throat, short depth mirrorless mounts?!?! Canon has gotten both the 17 TS and the 11-24 to work on the EF mount... That surely means something wider is possible, although not here yet, for Z-mount or EF-R.

If I had to guess, Canon comes out with a 10-24 or 9-18mm EF-R lens in the next couple of years - big, heavy, expensive and largely saying "Hey Nikon, look what we can do!", although it has practical applications. Nikon replies with a some oddity like a 6mm fisheye with a field of view of 220 degrees - they actually had one for the F mount, although it would be much easier in Z mount! I suspect they'll race each other at some point with odd wide angles that are made possible (or practical - nobody ever called that old 6mm Nikkor practical) by the mirrorless mounts, much as they are now with very fast lenses...

Voigtlander has had a 10mm full frame lens for Sony FE for a couple of years now.
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Shiftworker

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2019, 04:07:08 am »

You have to ask why anyone needs a rectilinear lens wider than 10mm as the perspective distortion at the edges of the frame will be horrendous......
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mshea

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2019, 06:21:31 pm »

I've seen examples of both the 10 and 12mm CV lenses at f/8 and the corners/edges aren't sufficiently sharp for my purposes. I'm beginning to think that the only other alternative would be to move to something like the Cambo system with one of the wider Rodenstock or Schneider lenses. I'm assuming it might be possible to use my A7RIII with such a setup. Anyone out there with some experience in that realm, or another forum I could check out?
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qwz

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2019, 04:35:23 am »

HCam Master TS 11-24mm

Custom build 11-24 with additional shift adapter.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99985.0
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Lightsmith

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Re: Wider T/S options than the Canon 17mm f/4 T/S?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2019, 02:40:37 pm »

The wider the lens view angle the more perspective distortion in the image and for architectural work I would rather use a 45mm tilt shift and stitch the images using Autopano or PTGui. You can download trial versions of these applications and see which you prefer. Add-ons in PS and LR are not going to provide the capabilities of a dedicated application.
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