color Change in 24 hours

[abozakaria]

Hi all
I use in my work many printers (hp z3200, Epson 3880 ,Epson p800 and 2 Epson L1800)
I make my own profile to insure that all prints from all printers is almost identical
Epson L1800 uses 6 dye inks and it has an oem tanks which I refill using Epson T673 original ink
I read that Epson  Claria ink is better than T673 and when I searched I found a  3rd party company that sells compatible Epson claria ink which they called ink thrift CL (from inkjet mall)
it is not  a cheap ink (I use their cone pro ink for 3880 and the result is better than OEM)
I buy the ink and rempty old ink then refill it making 3 power cleaning and then I profile it using Color Munki Photo
After I print  using it the prints has accurate and vivid colors but after 6 hours I feel the prints has yellowish hue , So I print the same image to insure that color changed and I was right
So I called there support and they told me that this is normal and this ink needs 24 hour to heal so you must profile after 24 hours and I did what they told me but after 24 hours I feels that prints are different and also has yellow hue
when I look at calibration charts I notice that black pattern(after 24 hours) is not 100% black and it surround with yellow
where is the problem ? and what to do
Plz see attchment

[Doug Gray]

Hi all
I use in my work many printers (hp z3200, Epson 3880 ,Epson p800 and 2 Epson L1800)
I make my own profile to insure that all prints from all printers is almost identical
Epson L1800 uses 6 dye inks and it has an oem tanks which I refill using Epson T673 original ink
I read that Epson  Claria ink is better than T673 and when I searched I found a  3rd party company that sells compatible Epson claria ink which they called ink thrift CL (from inkjet mall)
it is not  a cheap ink (I use their cone pro ink for 3880 and the result is better than OEM)
I buy the ink and rempty old ink then refill it making 3 power cleaning and then I profile it using Color Munki Photo
After I print  using it the prints has accurate and vivid colors but after 6 hours I feel the prints has yellowish hue , So I print the same image to insure that color changed and I was right
So I called there support and they told me that this is normal and this ink needs 24 hour to heal so you must profile after 24 hours and I did what they told me but after 24 hours I feels that prints are different and also has yellow hue
when I look at calibration charts I notice that black pattern(after 24 hours) is not 100% black and it surround with yellow
where is the problem ? and what to do
Plz see attchment

I've measured color change from minutes after printing to a week later. For OEM pigment inks the changes were less than 1 dE after the first hour. The changes you see are much larger.

[Paul Roark]

Based on the claims for Claria, I tried it for wall display prints for a while.  After a few years of display, I took one of the prints out of the frame.  There was a very obvious change of the light-exposed part of the print from the edge of the image that was protected from light under the over-mat.  My conclusion was and is that despite the claims of longevity, Claria is not up to professional display standards.   I strongly suspect all of the third party dyes are considerably weaker than Claria.  My conclusion, which is consistent with most of what we've been taught for years, is that for long term display, we need to stay with high quality pigments.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[howardm]

OT sorry...........

Paul, did you do any testing of the Canon -100 Chromalife+ inks?

[John Nollendorfs]

Dye inks are much more finicky on what ink receptor coating they are put on. The individual colors can interact with one another, causing a premature fading, therefore it was quite difficult to pick the exact dye combination that would minimize this dye interaction. A gelatin, or polymer ink receptor coating would minimize this interaction, but high ambient humidity conditions would encourage the migration of the dyes even in the receptor coating. The big advantage of dye inks for printer manufacturers was the low maintenance requirements compaired  to high load pigments. As the use of pigments increased, the pressure was on for R&D to develop more brilliant artificial pigments that rival dyes,  which has happened. Also printer manufacturers have engineered new print heads, and parking stations that deal with the maintenance issues.

The other issue that even pigmented inks have is non-linear fading of the individual pigments used. To combat this, it's a balancing act of picking individiual colors that provide the brilliance required, with the fading characteristics of the other individual inks. One of the great qualities of the Z series of HP printers, was their use of balanced gray inks combined with gray component removal of the colored inks in the printing algorithm, resulting in a very neutral looking print, which also seemes to have very good neutral fading characteristics. This is born out by both Wilhelm and Mark's fading studies. https://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/

[abozakaria]

Will it work if i refill the tanks of l1800 dye based printer with high quality cone pigment ink ?

[howardm]

I'd think you'd quite possibly kill the printer by clogging it w/ pigment particles that it was never designed for.

[Ferp]

I'd think you'd quite possibly kill the printer by clogging it w/ pigment particles that it was never designed for.

Not necessarily.  A lot of use is made of the Epson R1430 and its variants for pigment monochrome inksets.  Whether the same is true for Cone color inks is less clear, if that's what was meant.  IJM may be able to advise.

[Mark D Segal]

The lazy man's solution. for those averse to inviting headaches upon themselves, is just to use the inks the printers were designed for, or for special purposes - inks that the providers have thoroughly tested over a considerable period of time with the printers of interest and can make relevant information available.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Epson L1800 uses 6 dye inks and it has an oem tanks which I refill using Epson T673 original ink
I read that Epson  Claria ink is better than T673 and when I searched I found a  3rd party company that sells compatible Epson claria ink which they called ink thrift CL (from inkjet mall)

All dye inks. Claria is the better dye ink but still a dye ink. But instead of buying Claria you buy an ink that is supposed to be compatible, Which usually means it will run on the printer without issues but not that it has the same longevity etc in the print. You complain here but did you ask here before you bought the ink whether it was wise to use that ink? Did you get a positive reply here?

I think you could have got another reply here: Dry minilabs like Epson sells use a dye ink that comes close to the Claria. Sold in bigger cartridges with lower $/ML price, If used with the papers used in the minilabs you could expect similar longevity. Profiling of dye ink prints asks for longer drying times of the target and prints/targets will still be affected more by humidity than prints made with pigment inks. So less stable in color both short term and long term, the more in tropical climates with high humidity.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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