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Author Topic: from the front page: adam krawesky  (Read 5281 times)

OmerV

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #240 on: January 11, 2019, 09:44:21 am »


Fair enough, but he doesn't offer anything that shows what such differences can be other than those that exist simply between commissioned and self-motivated work. Stuff is either done because you enjoy doing it - the personal, or stuff that you do because it feeds you. In some cases, such as I eventually managed to procure for myself, the two combine. What other scenario is there?

Rob

Well, what do consider William Klein to be? (No, I don't compare myself to him.) Some icons of fine art photography did some commercial work, Saul Leiter for one, but most are known for their personal photography, or better yet, art. I guess it is possible that Klein just stepped out on to a sidewalk and without much thought made photographs that hang in museums, but it's doubtful.

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #241 on: January 11, 2019, 09:52:52 am »

A lot of pros never shoot unless commissioned. Some even take pride in that. I know quite a few that are clueless without a brief. Tell them to shoot whatever they want and they don’t know where to start. And these are not bad photographers at all. They really know what they are doing.

I know very few pros that shoot for the sheer love of it in off time from work. But I do know a few. They have certain advantages I suppose since the tools are all financed by work. They also obviously have technical skills that make camera handling largely instinctive. They do have certain disadvantages. Easy to become jaded, the commercial work style intrudes in the personal vision, technical aspects can become more mportant than vision. People like Nadav Kander come to mind. Also Harry De Zitter, Michael Meyersfeld. People I have met and some know fairly well
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RSL

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #242 on: January 11, 2019, 10:14:17 am »

The guy who did fantastic pro work, but whose off-time shooting will be remembered long after his professional stuff, even the great shot of the kerfuffle between Khrushchev and Nixon, is forgotten is Elliott Erwitt: a pro with an all-encompassing sense of humor.

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #243 on: January 11, 2019, 10:16:51 am »

The guy who did fantastic pro work, but whose off-time shooting will be remembered long after his professional stuff, even the great shot of the kerfuffle between Khrushchev and Nixon, is forgotten is Elliott Erwitt: a pro with an all-encompassing sense of humor.

You get them and that a top level example.
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KLaban

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #244 on: January 11, 2019, 11:14:11 am »

Many years ago I asked a fine art tutor - a well respected painter - to define 'fine art'. He didn't thank me for the question - there was considerable hesitation before answering - but eventually he did, making the distinction between applied art and fine art, saying that applied art was central to the application rather than self.

I think he nailed it.
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OmerV

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #245 on: January 11, 2019, 11:15:53 am »

The guy who did fantastic pro work, but whose off-time shooting will be remembered long after his professional stuff, even the great shot of the kerfuffle between Khrushchev and Nixon, is forgotten is Elliott Erwitt: a pro with an all-encompassing sense of humor.

Indeed. Glad you mentioned Erwitt, to whom I made an allusion in another post (levitating dog.) Yes, his humor is incomparable. Still, Erwitt continues to take pictures while also chastising those of us who switched to the dark side (digital.) Forever Elliot Erwitt.

petermfiore

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #246 on: January 11, 2019, 12:25:48 pm »

The guy who did fantastic pro work, but whose off-time shooting will be remembered long after his professional stuff, even the great shot of the kerfuffle between Khrushchev and Nixon, is forgotten is Elliott Erwitt: a pro with an all-encompassing sense of humor.

Yes, much more in photography. But not always in the arts is it the case...Household legendary illustration giants Norman Rockwell, NC Wyeth, and Maxfield Parrish to name but a few, failed to garner fame of their personal work. Very much passed over!

Peter

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #247 on: January 11, 2019, 12:35:53 pm »

Yes, much more in photography. But not always in the arts is it the case...Household legendary illustration giants Norman Rockwell, NC Wyeth, and Maxfield Parrish to name but a few, failed to garner fame of their personal work. Very much passed over!

Peter

Andy Warhol? Kind of worked for him I think
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petermfiore

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #248 on: January 11, 2019, 12:40:37 pm »

Andy Warhol? Kind of worked for him I think

Andy walked away from his illustration very early...but he used illustration to dominate in Pop Art. He led the movement. It's good to be first.


Peter

KLaban

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #249 on: January 11, 2019, 12:44:09 pm »

He was one of the few who successfully borrowed other's iconography and made it his own.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #250 on: January 11, 2019, 12:46:47 pm »

Here is a big ceiling. A really big ceiling. I will pay you paint it full of bible stuff. Take your time. Ring any bells?
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KLaban

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #251 on: January 11, 2019, 12:50:19 pm »

Here is a big ceiling. A really big ceiling. I will pay you paint it full of bible stuff. Take your time. Ring any bells?

Yet another genius.
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petermfiore

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #252 on: January 11, 2019, 01:00:15 pm »

Here is a big ceiling. A really big ceiling. I will pay you paint it full of bible stuff. Take your time. Ring any bells?
]

Yes, in a time when all art was made by commission. One of the world's biggest illustration jobs.

Peter
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 05:47:33 pm by petermfiore »
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Rob C

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #253 on: January 11, 2019, 02:42:02 pm »

Well, what do consider William Klein to be? (No, I don't compare myself to him.) Some icons of fine art photography did some commercial work, Saul Leiter for one, but most are known for their personal photography, or better yet, art. I guess it is possible that Klein just stepped out on to a sidewalk and without much thought made photographs that hang in museums, but it's doubtful.


Klein. He left the American forces and as part of the GI Bill, got himself into Paris and became an art student under Fernand Léger. He was primarily an artist in the painter/designer sense of the term, and then moved over to photography where he did good work in fashion (possibly starting the craze for long lenses after some striking shots in Rome) after discovering how he could use photography to illustrate movement of tones and turn them into something quite other than what they had first appeared to be. This was as the serendipitous result of seeing some large, painted screens being moved whilst they were suspended from above. His interest in film led to other work too.

But this is all beside the point: he is an artist in various mediums, and I have no more idea about the ins and outs of his work than anyone here. His street work for New York was done whilst he was living courtesy a grant/contract from Vogue which, eventually, was stopped because of the perceived anti-Americanism of that body of work and it was only published in America because the French published it first. Robert Frank redux? Now, are you willing to call that street work personal or commissioned? It was done on Vogue time but not to their pleasure. He went to Rome, Fellini offered him a job as an assistant, but the movie was delayed or scrubbed, so Klein spent the time there making another book: Rome. Again, what category would that fit? Nobody commissioned it.

The truth, insofar as I can glean it to be, is that Klein was ever his own man, and whatever he did, paid or otherwise, was to his own tastes. I consider that to prove that the two positions are certainly not in permanent conflict, as I found for myself in a far more modest way. I produced calendars for various companies, but they were created mainly to give me the photography I wanted to do, and earn a buck at the same time. Waiting for the 'phone to ring wasn't going to get that done - I had to arrange all those balls. If I'd relied on the 'phone, I'd have ended up shooting babies and bloody weddings!

Don't forget: photography as art, in the gallery sense, has been a relatively new concept that was quite well established in America by the 70s or so, but struggled elsewhere.

OmerV

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #254 on: January 11, 2019, 04:31:42 pm »


Klein. He left the American forces and as part of the GI Bill, got himself into Paris and became an art student under Fernand Léger. He was primarily an artist in the painter/designer sense of the term, and then moved over to photography where he did good work in fashion (possibly starting the craze for long lenses after some striking shots in Rome) after discovering how he could use photography to illustrate movement of tones and turn them into something quite other than what they had first appeared to be. This was as the serendipitous result of seeing some large, painted screens being moved whilst they were suspended from above. His interest in film led to other work too.

But this is all beside the point: he is an artist in various mediums, and I have no more idea about the ins and outs of his work than anyone here. His street work for New York was done whilst he was living courtesy a grant/contract from Vogue which, eventually, was stopped because of the perceived anti-Americanism of that body of work and it was only published in America because the French published it first. Robert Frank redux? Now, are you willing to call that street work personal or commissioned? It was done on Vogue time but not to their pleasure. He went to Rome, Fellini offered him a job as an assistant, but the movie was delayed or scrubbed, so Klein spent the time there making another book: Rome. Again, what category would that fit? Nobody commissioned it.

The truth, insofar as I can glean it to be, is that Klein was ever his own man, and whatever he did, paid or otherwise, was to his own tastes. I consider that to prove that the two positions are certainly not in permanent conflict, as I found for myself in a far more modest way. I produced calendars for various companies, but they were created mainly to give me the photography I wanted to do, and earn a buck at the same time. Waiting for the 'phone to ring wasn't going to get that done - I had to arrange all those balls. If I'd relied on the 'phone, I'd have ended up shooting babies and bloody weddings!

Don't forget: photography as art, in the gallery sense, has been a relatively new concept that was quite well established in America by the 70s or so, but struggled elsewhere.

Klein’s New York street work is personal, no matter who supported it. And though I’m not familiar with the commercial licensing of the ‘50s, I would think those pictures could not have been used commercially without model releases. Surely he and Vogue understood that.

faberryman

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #255 on: January 11, 2019, 04:32:52 pm »

Boy, are we far afield.

Rob C

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #256 on: January 11, 2019, 05:22:14 pm »

Klein’s New York street work is personal, no matter who supported it. And though I’m not familiar with the commercial licensing of the ‘50s, I would think those pictures could not have been used commercially without model releases. Surely he and Vogue understood that.


Model releases.

These had been very flexible concepts; sometimes you got models to sign releases headed as such, and at other times your signing of their model sheet showing time worked etc. was all you had or needed. Their turning up for a shoot was considered enough: why else would they have been there? Further, it wasn't the cutthroat business that it became with the mega agencies of the 80s and the huge fees.

Regarding the street shots in the books - could any of those people hire a lawyer even if they got as far as seeing the books? Remember, there was no Internet and books were bloody expensive! It was a different world back then.

Vogue was probably happy to get him off that freewheeling contract that Liberman gave him on whim, and because they saw something special before he'd made a single fashion pic for them. That said, he did go on to do them proud.

It wasn't Vogue put out the NY tome. They just had him on contract to do pretty much what he felt like during that period; the book was first published in France.

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2000/apr/22/weekend7.weekend1

Just found the above, which is quite detailed and answers a lot of stuff better than I can.

:-)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #257 on: January 11, 2019, 08:18:16 pm »

If you're the sole reference for "interesting", I'd agree...

Off topic: who is this guy, 32BT? Oscar that used to use the handle "opgr"? What happened?

FranciscoDisilvestro

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #258 on: January 11, 2019, 09:00:52 pm »

Off topic: who is this guy, 32BT? Oscar that used to use the handle "opgr"? What happened?

It seems so. You can change your name, but cannot change your history (unless you delete all your previous posts).

Ivophoto

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Re: from the front page: adam krawesky
« Reply #259 on: January 12, 2019, 02:53:26 am »

Off topic: who is this guy, 32BT? Oscar that used to use the handle "opgr"? What happened?

Maybe Oscar uses his Tapatalk login and his PC login? I have the same and I don’t find a way to make the names equal.
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