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Author Topic: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?  (Read 3704 times)

faberryman

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2018, 07:22:28 am »

I don't know about Sony ergonomics though, they seem to have a habit of making puzzleboxes.
Guy walks into camera store to buy his first camera. They are all puzzleboxes. Fortunately, they are already all set up. Menu structure isn't even on the radar as a buying consideration. It's about how it fits his hands and the patter of the salesman.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 07:25:57 am by faberryman »
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John Hollenberg

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2018, 12:08:16 pm »

I own Canon 5DSr and Sony A7r2.  I like both of them for different purposes.  I shoot landscape and wildlife exclusively, don't do any people or architectural photography.

Sony - amazing dynamic range, got tired of lack of dynamic range with previous Canon cameras.  If shooting landscape at any time other than the golden hour the Sony is my preference.  Use only Canon lenses with metabones adapter.

Canon - I find it more intuitive to use when on a tripod using live view, great for golden hour.  Strongly prefer for wildlife photography as I want to see the subject directly and don't care for EVF.

I prefer the Canon experience but often prefer the Sony results.  Probably won't buy another Canon camera unless they improve the dynamic range to match the Sony.
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hogloff

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2018, 12:22:40 pm »

And Charles, interesting, today I'm talking to a friend who has owned both and sold his Sony, because he says as being a people shooter, like, me, he want to talk and chat with the client while he is shooting can't be bothered with the insane display/ control/ function issues that is Sony.  That reason alone he went back to Canon (the new mirrorless R) for  -- ease of use. I bought the rx100 for travel 3 years ago ($500), and it's nice, but very non intuitive to deal with.



Sounds like a pile of crap to me. Using eye AF tracking, you can engage much more with the client as the camera ensures focus is on the eyes so you don't have to worry about focusing. I've shot both Canon DSLR and Sony mirrorless and to say the DSLR allows you more time to engage with the client just tells me the guy did not know how to use the Sony ( or was just biased and went back to his bias ).
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kevs

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2018, 12:53:54 pm »

Hog, what the guy meant was nothing about eye detection. He actually says his new Canon R mirrorless is a game changer for focusing.  He mentioned face detection. I'm not sure its as good as eye detection Sony, but he is happy with it. What he was saying is Sony (and he sold his), has difficulty in dealing with displays, -- so hard to deal with, it distracts from talking to the clients during the shoot. He probably has to interrupt a bit to figure out how to change things.

I've only own the tiny travel Sony rx100 and the images are great, but the little thing drives me nuts compared to  Canon- figuring things out.

Just got off the phone with a BH rep who changed from Canon to Sony as has no issues. He says go to Sony, but depends on the person.  Me, my friend, many others get Sonys and they are as...Edmond just said puzzleboxes. very very non intuitive difficult to deal with.. just us.

Clearly, Sony is killing right now on all points; eye focue, bigger resolution. I wish Canon had a 5Dmark 5 or or maybe mirrorless R 2 coming out next week that unified all these things... so still not sure what I'm going to to. Oh, forgot, I just bought, but has not arrived yet Sigma 12-24 for Canon (I could still return it wanted to)... which ranks as good as the overpriced Canon 11-24.. while Sony has that lens at the less expensive "Sigma) rate ... So yeah, was tempted to go to Sony, still in my head. But just for ease of use  ( and a few things Rockwell pointed out, color etc), think will stay with Canon.

Just don't know what to do today. Stay with Mark II and see what happens for awhile. Get pricey Mark 4, or  the new mirrorless R now and enjoy benefits now of better dynamic range, pixels etc but then have to see in a year or two these bodies annihilated by next versions...

And then many say (even Rockwell) that DLRS is over, while the BH rep just talked to says he would think Mark series and DLRS will continue as such huge existing market..

So still undecided what to do but leaning towards staying with Canon for ease of use, color.... ergonomics etc. Just wish that had the body that matched Sonys on all fronts.

I'm sure Canon and Nikon with match Sony eventually... but it does not make a Canon users decision easy today..

John H. I'm not dedicated landscaper/ nauture shooter, but this guy is
https://www.richardbernabe.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-camera-review/

And he says the Mark 4 solved all his Canon dynamic range issues, so I think DR is not a variable anymore...
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 01:01:28 pm by kevs »
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faberryman

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2018, 01:13:29 pm »

What he was saying is Sony (and he sold his), has difficulty in dealing with displays, -- so hard to deal with, it distracts from talking to the clients during the shoot. He probably has to interrupt a bit to figure out how to change things.
I'm not even sure what he is talking about. Dealing with displays? If he is distracted by the technology, then he needs to become more familiar with his camera.

Rhossydd

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2018, 01:49:44 pm »

I'm not even sure what he is talking about. Dealing with displays?
Difficulties with tethering ??
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kevs

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2018, 03:14:31 pm »

Sorry guys, CONTROLS AND MENUS (which include), top menu.

This is the limitation of talking through computers and forums.
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faberryman

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2018, 03:19:01 pm »

Sorry guys, CONTROLS AND MENUS (which include), top menu.
Not sure why he is mucking about in the menus during a session.

BobShaw

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2018, 06:20:55 pm »

Guy walks into camera store to buy his first camera. They are all puzzleboxes.
Correct, but, for most people their first camera is not a 5D series or equivalent. They start with a rebel or equivalent and it takes 12 months to figure out what it doesn't do and why they need a 5D. Then they should be intuitive.

I went from a 5d2 to a 5Ds and picked it up and started using it straight away. The buttons may have moved, but they still have buttons or dials for the important things which I can find without taking my eye off the viewfinder. That to me is the most important criteria on a people shoot. I just sold the 5D2 and it was working fine. The OP's is probably working fine after 10 years also. These are things to consider. If you invest in a camera then you invest in a system that has to work for maybe a decade.
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kevs

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2018, 06:48:28 pm »

Well said Bob!  I'm 6 years on Mark 2.

Good point, what you just said confirms what my buddy who returned his Sony for the Canon R said. Indeed, it's not talked about enough, but the controls and menus really are as important as anything else, at least for people photography.  Rockwell has a whole section on it to his credit.

How is the 5ds?  That would be my first choice being it's the killer for pixels, except Canon according to many, left so much else out-- meager iso etc. Intentional by Canon-- baffling?  The BH rep today said he would favor the Mark 4.
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DP

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2018, 06:58:55 pm »

press conferences in mediocre light

current generation of dSLMs has no issues with such environment because light is enough for their PDAF to operate and subjects are not moving like players on the fields... it is another story that photog's employer prefers C & N for example for their professional services, etc
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DP

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2018, 07:03:44 pm »

I'm six years with the Canon 5D2... Coming out of hibernation, next year I could go to the 4, or even the R/S or...
Any recommendations? I lean to the 4 as the others while having 20 MB more pixels, but Canon seemed to have left out the iso and other benefits correct?
Canon did reduce banding in deep shadows a lot.. so 5D4 is a lot better than 5D2... engineering DR graphs do not say about this because they can't account for banding...  there is no urgency for you to jump - get 5D4 and just wait when Canon delivers a better body then their first R
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kevs

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2018, 08:33:33 pm »

DP you would spend $2800.00 on the D4 now and then in a year or two (probably a year no?)  go mirrorless with R 2?

I guess there are a lot of people who drop 3k, every 2 years or so...

(spoiled by film years where bought a body and were good for 10 years, of course expense of film, but still darn...)
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BobShaw

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2018, 08:57:00 pm »

How is the 5ds?  That would be my first choice being it's the killer for pixels, except Canon according to many, left so much else out-- meager iso etc. Intentional by Canon-- baffling?  The BH rep today said he would favor the Mark 4.
If you need 50MP then buy an X1D, which is what I did. The 5Ds is fine in good light but I think 50MP is beyond the sweet spot for 35mm and most people seldom need 50MP for people anyway.
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kevs

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2018, 09:05:55 pm »

Thanks Bob, what mean, "50MP is beyond the sweet spot for 35mm"..... does not print like a true 50mb that a medium format Phase One might?

For fine art --even people in the shots -- you cannot have enough if you want to print 70 inches on one side. But yeah, for headshots, 20 is great, so depends.

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charles.woodrich

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2018, 10:24:54 pm »

Hi Charles,

What aspects of the Sony prevent you from using it full time if I may ask?

Cheers,
Bernard

I mainly photograph wildlife, and I have the native 100-400 for each.  It's been my experience that the AF is quicker and more accurate with the Canon combo than the Sony combo.  The Sony hunts much more than the Canon which means missed shots.  I like the way I can customize the Sony so I can make adjustments quickly; 10 fps; silent shooting, and I like the bigger files, but all of this means nothing if I miss the shot.
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faberryman

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2018, 07:19:17 am »

...I think 50MP is beyond the sweet spot for 35mm and most people seldom need 50MP for people anyway.
Even if true, which is not at all certain, some photographers make images of things other than people.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 10:34:06 am by faberryman »
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tcphoto1

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2018, 10:23:11 am »

After years of running through airports carrying my backpack, I was ready to change up my kit. A few months ago I made the move and wasnít going to buy the first generation Canon R. I had a 1Dx, 1DsIII and five Lís so I bought two 5DIVís and couldnít be happier. Rumor has it Canon will release a Pro version of the R and more R lenses in 2019 but I wasnít going to wait on vapor ware as Apple users call it. I donít care if a 5DV comes or not, I have clients that arenít interested in rumors. If you donít mind taking a loss selling your gear, rent a Sony or whatever and make the switch if it works for you.
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kevs

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2018, 10:49:46 am »

Yes Faberr I agree, that more pixels better, and I say even for people photographers (especially those who do fine art people photography). We all want the option of being able to blow up huge prints at best resolution.  Whether or not the 50 mb Canons don't make a large file as good as 50 Hassys, I have not done A/B test on that.. but who wants to spend 3x as much to find out?  The Hassys cost 3x more. Is it 3x better?

I wish Canon had a camera out now that combined the 45-50mb, best focusing, best iso... oh well maybe later.

Good post TC.. I may still may get Mark4.. I do mind talking a loss. I like to get a camera body and have it last for 5 years plus. But that's a valid point, live for today. The 4 gets great reviews.  Just wish 5 was out! oh well.  Still deciding...



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DP

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Re: From Canon 5D2 to 4 or R or 5 or Sony ?
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2018, 11:01:22 am »

DP you would spend $2800.00 on the D4 now and then in a year or two (probably a year no?)  go mirrorless with R 2?

'd you buy R1 now and then the same way go to R2 - because R1 is not yet a proper body, stupid control bar alone ? and then you can always buy a grey market 5DIV for $600-800 less.

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