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Author Topic: Canon TSE Image Circles  (Read 2365 times)

alatreille

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Canon TSE Image Circles
« on: December 12, 2018, 06:05:34 pm »

Hi,

Has anyone worked out what the image circles of the new crop of TSE lenses is (50, 90 and 135)

Cheers

andrew
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Balafre

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2018, 10:15:04 pm »

I wondered the same - for some reason silly Canon has decided to keep them secret! I used to own the Mk2 24mm and it's image circle was 67.2 mm, and a fabulous lens.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2018, 10:34:44 am »

Hi,

Designed for a 36x24mm full frame, with shift capability of +/= 12 mm, results in an image circle of 64.6 mm diameter beyond which image quality falls outside the design specifications.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 10:50:31 am by BartvanderWolf »
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NancyP

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2018, 10:07:07 am »

Thanks, Bart. Sometimes having Google available makes us forget common math.
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alatreille

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 01:30:36 pm »

Thanks Bart.

Yes, that's the calculated image circle, but we know from practice that the image circles of the 17 and the 24 are greater.
So I'm wondering what the 50/90 and 135 really are....

I'm interested in using them on larger sensors and want to work out how much movement there is (initially regardless of quality loss).

It's hard information to find or work out!

A


Hi,

Designed for a 36x24mm full frame, with shift capability of +/= 12 mm, results in an image circle of 64.6 mm diameter beyond which image quality falls outside the design specifications.

Cheers,
Bart
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David Eichler

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 11:50:08 pm »

Hi,

Designed for a 36x24mm full frame, with shift capability of +/= 12 mm, results in an image circle of 64.6 mm diameter beyond which image quality falls outside the design specifications.

Cheers,
Bart

Not necessarily, unless there is additional information of which you know but have not shared. The shift limit could be due to mechanical, rather than optical, limitations.
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Two23

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2018, 09:57:22 am »

The TSE lenses are expensive.  I'd suggest buying a bellows that allows for movements (or try making one) and buying shorter focal lenses designed for large format.  When I need a big image circle & movements I simply shoot 4x5  (or 5x7  :)  ).


Kent in SD
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Two23

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2018, 09:59:15 am »

I for got to add that there are backs made with a built in Nikon rear lens mount that allow you to mount a Nikon camera to a 4x5 camera (and its lenses.)  Downside is lenses shorter than 65mm are scarce and expensive, and you'd need a bag bellows.


Kent in SD
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BobShaw

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2018, 11:06:34 pm »

I for got to add that there are backs made with a built in Nikon rear lens mount that allow you to mount a Nikon camera to a 4x5 camera (and its lenses.)  Downside is lenses shorter than 65mm are scarce and expensive, and you'd need a bag bellows.
Kent in SD
I went down that road years ago. It doesn't work.
The Nikon DSLR film plane to lens mount is shorter than Canon's, but on a Canon you are 75mm for a start with the adaptor before you add the camera and bellows and the sensor is minuscule compared to 4x5 film giving a massive crop factor. I doubt that you could use even a 65mm lens with even no bellows or shift on infinity. More likely 125mm. Compare that to a 24 and even 17MM TSE.

Everything in photography is expensive but the most expensive thing I have found is buying the same thing multiple times.
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Two23

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2018, 01:12:35 pm »

I went down that road years ago. It doesn't work.


This is one reason I've kept shooting 4x5.  I like small town/rural architecture and nothing seems to beat a view camera for making the kinds of photos I want. :)


Kent in SD
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KenTanaka

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2019, 11:04:32 am »

Hello Andrew,

FWIW I have been using Canon's 17mm and 24mm (ver II) on my Fuji GFX50s (via a Techart smart adapter) and have been quite pleased with the corners and edges, especially when stopping down slightly.  I think the circles on those lenses are quite large!  The 45mm can be a bit wonky in extreme shifts but is still usable.  (The 50mm is arriving today so I have no experience with it yet.)  I've not felt the need to try any of the Canon TS-E lenses with my IQ160 (full-frame 645) back but wouldn't be confident of their coverage on such a large sensor.  (The newer IQs with smaller sensors would probably see coverage like the GFX50s.)

Getting here very late but perhaps this will still be useful.
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TomRobbins

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 02:00:52 pm »

You'll find the 50mm version considerably better than the old 45mm, Ken, especially toward the limits of shift travel. The difference between the original 90mm and the new one isn't quite as pronounced, but still noticeable.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 03:57:24 pm by TomRobbins »
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NancyP

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2019, 07:46:22 pm »

Two23 - I thought that signature line sounded familiar.   ;D  Do you sing? Or are you an opera fan? View camera photos of small town architecture - sounds like an excellent excuse for a road trip....
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OwenR

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2019, 11:04:26 pm »

Hi,

Has anyone worked out what the image circles of the new crop of TSE lenses is (50, 90 and 135)

Cheers

andrew

Andrew, Iím not sure on the exact specifics, but can say that on the GFX the 50 is tack sharp at full diagonal shift at f11. Itís an incredible lens and possibly my favourite on that format.
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LAphotog

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2019, 11:52:34 am »

Thanks for the thread. I'm an architectural photographer and have a similar setup to you - but I'm struggling to make the Fuji GFX50 work or me. I really want it to, but I must be missing a step somewhere. In advance, please forgive my lack of technical phrasing or perfectly worded terms. When I use a Canon 5DSR with a 24mmTS I like the lens length and setup and have been trying to recreate it somehow with the GFX. Here's what I've tried.

The Fuji GFX + Techart adapter + Canon 24mm TS lens.
However, putting a 35mm format lens on a GFX widens the lens by x0.67. So, in 35mm format terms, when using with the Fuji this makes the 24mmTS lens seems like a 17mm (mostly too wide for me). I also have a Canon 17mmTS and when I try to use that with the GFX +Techart adapter it makes it seem like a 14mm (WAY too wide for me).  I need something around 24mm with shift. Any ideas?

here's something else I tried

The Fuji GFX + Kipon 645 Shift adapter + Pentax 645 35mm lens.
I also bought a Kipon Shift adapter for Pentax 645 lenses as I had some kicking around, but putting a 645 lens on a GFX increases the lens length by x1.27.
When I use the GFX + Kipon 645 Shift adapter + Pentax 35mm (645 lens) in 35mm format terms it would become around a 28mm lens. SO again I can't get the magic 24mm that I'm looking for. I know the Contax 645 lenses would give me a better quality result but it would still be too long a lens for me with their widest lens being a 35mm (645 lens) which is the same length as the widest Pentax 645 lens.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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mcbroomf

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2019, 03:36:48 pm »

Canon made a 35mm T/S lens for their FD bodies.  I still use it on my Sony cameras with excellent results.  I'm not sure how well it will do on the GFX50 sensor at the edges mind you, but if you can find one to test (before you buy, or return if it does not work for you) it may be worth investigating.

Mike
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LAphotog

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2019, 03:54:29 pm »

Thank Mike - that sounds like a great lens and one I didn't know about - I'll look into it.
Appreciate it
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Dan Wells

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2019, 10:21:49 pm »

Is there a Mamiya/Phase One to Fuji Kipon T/S adapter? Mamiya makes a 28mm lens in leaf-shutter and non leaf-shutter versions. It's expensive at $5500 without the leaf shutter, $6000 with (the leaf-shutter version is listed as a Schneider-Kreuznach and the other is listed as a Phase One - not sure if they're optically different). Used versions show up for about half that, generally branded Mamiya. There's also a Hasselblad H system 28mm around the same price (which would, of course, require a Hasselblad to Fuji adapter). The Hasselblad lens is probably a Fujinon underneath it all. The Hasselblad lens is digital-only, covering a sensor slightly larger than the GFX sensor, but not 645 film - shift movements might be somewhat limited. The Mamiya/Schneider/Phase lens is listed as actually covering 645 film - it should have plenty of movements on a GFX.

The other alternative would be a technical camera or "baby" view camera with a digital back.  I believe there are technical camera lenses that wide (they look vaguely like view camera lenses, although many of them have a focusing helicoid depending on the design of the camera, and they don't cover 4x5"), and (since the back has no flange distance at all), focusing and movements are easier than with a technical adapter on a Fuji. This is almost certainly even more expensive than a Mamiya lens (a used back new enough to have reasonable live view will be close to $10,000 from a dealer before you add a tech camera and a lens, although they're sometimes cheaper on the forum here).
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LAphotog

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2019, 07:32:03 pm »

Thanks so much Dan - I appreciate your advice.

I'll look into all of those options. Basically I think I've invested in the wrong gear.  I'm trying to make the GFX into something it isn't.

I could get the Fuji GFX view camera adapter and put it on the back of my old Toyo 4x5 field camera but then I'd have to buy the wide digital lenses which are $5k or so.

I thought there would be a cheaper Frankenstein method of being able to shift by putting the GFX with a 35mm lens or with a 645 lens - but there just doesn't seem to be a configuration that would give me shift at around 24mm (in 35mm format terms).  I have a full set of 35mm lenses and a full set of 645 lenses. I have adapters, but it just doesn't combine to make it work. Laowa make an adapter which connects an Eos lens with a GFX and magnifies the lens x1.4 to make it closer to the 35mm format nature of the lens (again a thousand apologies for my lack of technical verbiage) by putting it through more glass (which I'd rather not do) but it magnifies it a little too much so my 24mm Canon shift would become a 28mm and I'm back to square one.

Using the GFX with the Cambo Actus and the 24mm Cambo Actus lens is a possible solution but as I understand it doesn't have a lot of room for shift on the GFX. I would love to be wrong about that, as that's a possible route.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 07:40:17 pm by LAphotog »
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geesbert

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Re: Canon TSE Image Circles
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2019, 04:16:31 pm »

I am using the 17, the 24,the 45, the new 90 and the 135 on my Fuji GFX and truely love them. some vignetting is apparent at extreme tilt movements, but can be reduced by intelligent shifting. the 50 is on my list for my next lens, but I hardly use this focal length, so I am not sure yet...

I am shooting food, so the 90 and the 135 with the fuji are a true killer combination.

regarding the old vs. the new 90mm TSE: in my opinion they are worlds apart when used at shorter distances than 1m, where the old one was mediocre and the new one is brilliant. also being able to focus much closer ist fantastic. these two lenses replaced my Actus setup in 95% of my shootings.

it feels like 8x10 became hand holdable finally!

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