BLack and White using "AM" workflow..what is AM??

[Pete JF]

I saw a reference to "AM workflow" with regard to using paper profiles and printing BW using the color side of the Epson drivers..(i think it was AM)

What is AM?

And could someone explain this workflow..I could not find what this stood for..

[Mark D Segal]

It's probably a cute abbreviation for "Application Managed", which means the user managing color in Lr, Ps etc using ICC profiles specific to the paper/printer combination, rather than Printer Color Management.

[Garnick]

I saw a reference to "AM workflow" with regard to using paper profiles and printing BW using the color side of the Epson drivers..(i think it was AM)

What is AM?

And could someone explain this workflow..I could not find what this stood for..

"(i think it was AM)" ... My first thought was that perhaps it was actually ABW (Advanced Black & White) in Photoshop.  It is a workflow in itself obviously, so I imagine the OP got the acronym wrong.

Gary

[Pete JF]

Garnick,

it was actually mentioned as an alternative to ABW..i think Mark Segal said it and then i saw another person mention it.

[Pete JF]

Im interested in how folks are doing this..I've done it before of course, but things always seem 'colored' a bit..maybe a very subtle blue overall..

Is anyone getting good neutral results that dont look like they have a subtle tint?

[Mark D Segal]

Im interested in how folks are doing this..I've done it before of course, but things always seem 'colored' a bit..maybe a very subtle blue overall..

Is anyone getting good neutral results that dont look like they have a subtle tint?

How folks are doing what exactly? Could you explain what you are talking about?

[Garnick]

Im interested in how folks are doing this..I've done it before of course, but things always seem 'colored' a bit..maybe a very subtle blue overall..

Is anyone getting good neutral results that dont look like they have a subtle tint?

Hi Pete,

I think the only way you're going to get a truly neutral look is to use one of the piezography systems with a carbon based inkset.  With that you can do neutral or add a tint as you wish.  I have never used that system, but there are others (Paul Roark) on Lula who can offer much more information that I can.  As far as the Epson driver on Photo Papers is concerned there's usually a slight tint, which is mostly a result of metamorism in my opion.  However, with a slight colour correction this can often be somewhat neutralized.  Another approach is the QuadTone Rip, which you can find here - http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html.  I've seldom used QTR on Photo Papers, but it does a very acceptable job on creating neutral B&W prints on the Fine Art Papers. 

Like Mark, I have no idea what the "acronym" AM means.  If it does indeed refer to "Application Manages Colour", that's the method we all use for the most part and would not necessarily produce a totally neutral B&W print.  If one uses ABW there is no colour management in the usual way, since the printer has control at that point.  I'm sure you are aware of all of this, but the "AM" method is beyond me, and as Mark has mentioned, we definitely do need more information concerning your question.

Gary 

 

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Pete,

I think the only way you're going to get a truly neutral look is to use one of the piezography systems with a carbon based inkset. 

Gary

When I tested and reviewed the Epson SC-P5000 printer with Epson Legacy Baryta paper and measured the B&W tone scale in 21 increments of 5% from 0 to 100 (printed tone scale was from about L*2.3 to 97., the average dE of the chroma channels (a+b) was 0.33. That means the average departure from neutral is beneath the level of human visual perception. The maximum dE was 0.53 at L*50, and the smallest 0.10 at L*90, also both imperceptibly different from neutral. And this was using my custom ICC profile for making the print of the tone scale - not ABW mode. That work was done in Q1 2017. Since then I have reviewed other papers and reported similarly stellar results simply using good ICC profiles with the OEM printer driver in Application-based colour management.

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Pete,

 ..........As far as the Epson driver on Photo Papers is concerned there's usually a slight tint, which is mostly a result of metamorism in my opion.......... 

Gary

I dealt with the tint issue yesterday.

Now let's look at "metamorism" (sic). Metamerism is a bit of a complex subject (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamerism_(color)) and often gets confused with perceptual inconstancy of colour, which latter is the problem you are trying to identify. These are different phenomena. Metamerism can happen between two colour samples, whereas the problem you are referencing is confined to one sample whose colours, especially neutrals, appear to shift when seen under different lighting conditions. This was a real problem back in 2000 with the Epson 2000P inkset. A black that looked black under one kind of lighting looked greenish under another. It was eliminated over the following several years with successive inkset improvements and is now ancient history.

[Pete JF]

Hi Pete,

I think the only way you're going to get a truly neutral look is to use one of the piezography systems with a carbon based inkset.  With that you can do neutral or add a tint as you wish.  I have never used that system, but there are others (Paul Roark) on Lula who can offer much more information that I can.  As far as the Epson driver on Photo Papers is concerned there's usually a slight tint, which is mostly a result of metamorism in my opion.  However, with a slight colour correction this can often be somewhat neutralized.  Another approach is the QuadTone Rip, which you can find here - http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html.  I've seldom used QTR on Photo Papers, but it does a very acceptable job on creating neutral B&W prints on the Fine Art Papers. 

Like Mark, I have no idea what the "acronym" AM means.  If it does indeed refer to "Application Manages Colour", that's the method we all use for the most part and would not necessarily produce a totally neutral B&W print.  If one uses ABW there is no colour management in the usual way, since the printer has control at that point.  I'm sure you are aware of all of this, but the "AM" method is beyond me, and as Mark has mentioned, we definitely do need more information concerning your question.

Gary

Hi Gary,

I used to use the Cone Piezog setup on an old Epson 13 inch desktop with Image Print..
pretty good setup but I left it after the printer kicked the bucket and i was heading towards more expenses with upgrading Image Print and the Cone system..etc..new computer, new OS, you know the drill.

I usually print using ABW and I am, for the most part, satisfied with the results.

Once in a while I'll play around with printing BW in Color section of the driver..IMO, the color presence is noticable.

I'm sure the AM thing was what you mentioned (app manages color) it was on offhanded Acronym that was used in several posts in a thread i was reading..cant find the reference now.

I've actually been thinking about jumping back into the Cone Piezo system recently though.