Non BH, Adorama, Samys, stores etc and Black market question

[kevs]

I always buy from BH for years, but I do see a Canon lens on a site I've never heard of (parkavephoto).

Is this too risky/ catch? or black market? Any advice? Thanks.

[Kevin Raber]

Too risky, I know of many people who have been scammed.  The motto you get what you pay for is most likely true here.  Friends have ordered cameras only to get boxes with something else in them.  Stick with the reputable sellers.

[kevs]

Thanks Kevin.. ah.. darn.. never heard that one before about the empty box. I do remember I experimented once about 10 years ago, and the catch was some exorbitant shipping fee, but this place now says free shipping in US.

Their return policy is way more brutal... exact packaging, and within 10 days.

So I was thinking 'maybe" if I'm 100% certain not to return, it could be ok. They have a boatload of good Google + reviews that seem legit.. but who knows, maybe you are right...

[Box Brownie]

Hi

FWIW I am not in the USA and though we also see grey importers mentioned with some genuinely happy buyers from a very select few such sources until I read of something called "bait & switch" and the heavy handed upselling of what are in fact items already in the manufacturers boxes I had no idea that such scam artists exist.

So, seeing this thread I had a quick look for this company and my cursory search tells me that I would never touch them with a bargepole.

Here I found the sort of stories I have read of a few years back on various fora https://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/park-avenue-photo-rochester  so it stills goes on

Grey market importer/suppliers are one thing but the sort of scammers that you have in the US simply beggar belief with their sharp, aggressive sales tactics to catch the unwary....how they manage to legally stay in business is beyond me???

Plus I found one review site ekomi......................I wonder who verifies their reviews but there are blocks of them all appearing on the exact same date for the supplier you mention and all are such glowing reviews ~ i don't want to be cynical but that in itself is highly suspicious.

If you are going to buy grey imports (morality issues aside) only ever use a supplier with a known good track record based on peoples personal that are known to you!

Remember caveat emptor

[kevs]

thanks Box, I did see the Yelp, but did not read them. I actually prefer Google + reviews, but who knows... I am definitively sufficiently spooked to stay away.

Now the Canon lens I'm thinking og... is not made in USA to begin with.. but yeah.. who knows what might arise....

[enduser]

We have used eBay for years and never had a dud. They guarantee your purchase. (I don't sell on eBay or anywhere else.)

[Jim Metzger]

I  have had nothing but misery ordering from anyone but major stores. There is online reviews of sellers and B&H and Adorama are always at the top. I have also had really good experience with Foto Care, Roberts And Midwest.

I would not gamble personally with any more than I was willing to lose.

Jim

[NancyP]

KEH is good for used equipment.

[kevs]

I've come around you are all right. BH all way ( been using them since 90s)

KEH was great for a used 4x5 system I got, but would only pay a fraction of what BH offered to buy it later.

Ebay, I'm ok with for little things here or there. I would not buy a used camera or anything very expensive there... probably...

Samys LA good for rental, BH best.

[Ken Bennett]

Yeah, same here. You can read reviews at resellerratings.com (though I don't see parkavephoto.com there) that talk about the same old bait and switch ads, one guy said the salesman wanted to charge $200 extra for "the firmware" as the camera would not operate without it.

B&H, Adorama, Roberts. KEH for used gear.

[Box Brownie]

thanks Box, I did see the Yelp, but did not read them. I actually prefer Google + reviews, but who knows... I am definitively sufficiently spooked to stay away.

Now the Canon lens I'm thinking og...is not made in USA to begin with.. but yeah.. who knows what might arise....

Do Canon or indeed any of the mainstream manufacturers make or assembly any lenses or bodies in the USA?

It was my understanding because of changes in the Far East that none are made entirely in Japan [the country of the initial manufacturing] but in these countries ~ Taiwan, China, Vietnam, Thailand (I stand to be corrected and this 'list' amended) but none that I have yet to read of are made in the USA or in the EU.

[Two23]

Ebay, I'm ok with for little things here or there. I would not buy a used camera or anything very expensive there... probably...

This year I bought an $1,800 Petzval lens (c.1862) from Eastern Europe on ebay.  Today I received a Nikkor M300mm f5.6 lens I bought on ebay from a guy in Duluth, MN.  Most of my camera gear has come from ebay--well over $10,000 going back 18 years.  I've never had a problem.  However I do use good sense.  I pass over sellers with little feedback, bad feedback, or from sketchy countries no matter how enticing the price.  Quite a bit of the other things I've bought came from the Fred Miranda buy/sell or the Large Format Photography forum  (have purchased several thousand $$ from that one.)  As for your original post, my thinking when I see something for sale I didn't know existed is that either the seller doesn't know what the hell he has (common) or is a scammer.  I avoid both.


Kent in SD

Most of the below was purchased from
ebay sellers from around the world.

[Alan Klein]

Too risky, I know of many people who have been scammed.  The motto you get what you pay for is most likely true here.  Friends have ordered cameras only to get boxes with something else in them.  Stick with the reputable sellers.

Years, ago, when I was dating my wife-to-be, I was driving in Manhattan going to dinner with her.  A guy approaches selling what appeared to be a new Panasonic video camera.  Brand new box and all.  I assumed it was "hot" and negotiated a great price of $80 showing my new girlfriend what a slick New Yorker I was.  When we got to the restaurant, I opened the box.  It was full of three-day old New York Times newspapers.  Boy was I embarrassed.  Mr Sophisticate just got took by a street vendor.  I've been buying from B and H since. 

[jim t]

I've bought used, a Canon 5d mkii and 3 L lenses from ebay users in the past and all were in great condition.  I've only had issues in the early days of Ebay.

[Dan Wells]

I'd stick to the big camera-first dealers like B&H and Adorama, and to well known regional camera stores that sell online. The two in New England are Hunt's and Green Mountain Camera - I don't know who the equivalents are elsewhere.

Even big non-camera retailers like Amazon have their problems, since they carry so many products (most of which are much, much cheaper than a professional camera). Some poor photographer ordered a 1Dx mkII on Amazon (shipped and sold by Amazon itself), and got a Canon box - with rocks inside. He returned it, and got another Canon box (containing a brick)... Fortunately, the guy videotaped the second box opening starting with the sealed Amazon box, so Amazon gave him his money back. His subsequent B&H order actually contained a camera!!! Someone working in an Amazon warehouse had presumably stolen the cameras and replaced them with ballast. Since B&H deals with so many valuable photographic items (and is much smaller), their warehouse is better monitored...

The second problem with Amazon, eBay and other large "sell everything sites" is the large number of third-party fly-by-night sellers that look just like real Amazon listings. Gray market cameras, third-party batteries and other "equivalents" are not always clearly labeled.

[kevs]

Dan question: are Hunts and Green mountain 100% as reputable as these four: BH/ Adorama, Samys, KEH?
They are in that league?

Infuriated with BH as they are months backordered on an item, and to really looking for new options.

Everyone: Those four I mentions are 100% reputable. If anyone else would like to add to the list of non iffy/ possible shady players please do. Thanks.

[Ken Bennett]

Everyone: Those four I mentions are 100% reputable. If anyone else would like to add to the list of non iffy/ possible shady players please do. Thanks.

Roberts Camera. Been dealing with them for years. Their used gear subsidiary is Used Photo Pro.

[kevs]

YES, Ken, on the phone with them yesterday. Good to expand the roster. BH, you can't even call back a sales agent you like. And everything is delayed I order now.