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Author Topic: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS  (Read 303 times)

rabanito

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Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« on: December 07, 2018, 01:14:19 PM »

I scanned images in B&W and sent them via autoimport to Lightroom
If I sent them to PS the same image looks lighter there and in LR

If I do the same with an image from my camera converted to SW this doesn't happen

Any ideas why this should happen?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2018, 01:25:00 PM »

I scanned images in B&W and sent them via autoimport to Lightroom
If I sent them to PS the same image looks lighter there and in LR

If I do the same with an image from my camera converted to SW this doesn't happen

Any ideas why this should happen?

First sentence:
- What kind of photos did you start with? B&W positives? B&W negatives? Colour positives? Colour negatives?
- If colour how did you scan them in B&W?
- What software were you using with what scanner and with what exposure settings in the scan software?
- What do you mean by "Autoimport"? How does that work and what settings did that use in all the software involved?

Second sentence:
- Totally unintelligible and apparently contradictory relative to the first sentence.
- If you are trying to say the results differed between Photoshop and Lr, we'd need to know the settings in each application to begin making sense of it.

Third sentence:
- What is "SW"?
- And when you say "this doesn't happen", what is the "this" in light of the ambiguity from above?

If you want help you need to state the problem in a clear, unambiguous manner and provide enough information about what you're doing so people can know where to begin.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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rabanito

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 01:59:13 PM »

First sentence:
- What kind of photos did you start with? B&W positives? B&W negatives? Colour positives? Colour negatives?
- If colour how did you scan them in B&W?
- What software were you using with what scanner and with what exposure settings in the scan software?
- What do you mean by "Autoimport"? How does that work and what settings did that use in all the software involved?

Second sentence:
- Totally unintelligible and apparently contradictory relative to the first sentence.
- If you are trying to say the results differed between Photoshop and Lr, we'd need to know the settings in each application to begin making sense of it.

Third sentence:
- What is "SW"?
- And when you say "this doesn't happen", what is the "this" in light of the ambiguity from above?

If you want help you need to state the problem in a clear, unambiguous manner and provide enough information about what you're doing so people can know where to begin.

Wow! Not a good writer, am I? :)

As for your questions:
First sentence
- B&W negatives
-
- ScanGear from Canon  CanoScan 9000 F MarkII - No manual settings used - Just scan - No enhancements - Everything "off"
- "AutoImport" is a feature of Lightroom. You put a file in a specified (watched) folder and Lightroom imports it automatically and moves it to  a destination folder.  It doesn't touch the contents of the file

Second sentence
- OMG :-)
- If I import an image from my camera to LR and from LR to PS, both views look the same (B&W)
BUT:
- If I import an image from the scanner to LR and from LR to PS, the view in LR is again darker than that which appears in PS.
- After doing some editing in PS (or none whatsoever) and then saving it back, the image shown in LR is (again) darker than that in PS

Third sentence:
- SW should have been B&W. Sorry
- Hope I've explained more clearly above now. :(

Thanks for your patience
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2018, 03:57:35 PM »

Thanks Rabanito,

Much better! I get the picture now (literally)  :)

OK, I am familiar with the watched Folder set-up for Lr and that's fine - good way to work.

From what you are saying, it seems to me that the scan is probably missing a profile on import which causes the disconnect in how it appears between Photoshop and Lightroom, or there is a profile mismatch between the scan and one of two applications. I would suggest that you make sure you have embedded ProPhoto colour space in the scan at time of scanning (done in scanning software) and make sure you are using ProPhoto as your default colour space in Photoshop. There is no need to pre-select a working space in Lr unless you are exporting the file from Lr. Also check that the scan gamma is 2.2. This gamma selection will likely assure better coherence between the three applications. If you aren't already set-up that way, try cohering these settings and let us know what happens.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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rabanito

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2018, 04:48:57 PM »


 I would suggest that you make sure you have embedded ProPhoto colour space in the scan at time of scanning (done in scanning software) and make sure you are using ProPhoto as your default colour space in Photoshop...

I think the scanner recognizes a B&W negative and doesn't embed the color space at all.
My color management knowledge is somewhat elemental but I wonder if that has something to do with the problem
Looking at "assign profile" in Ps it says "Don't color manage this document" and one could assign a "Working Gray" instead of "Working RGB"  :o
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 05:32:36 PM »

You should be able to embed the scanner profile in the scan and then convert to ProPhoto in Photoshop.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 05:33:08 PM »

But also do check the scan gamma.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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smthopr

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 05:57:20 PM »

I think the scanner recognizes a B&W negative and doesn't embed the color space at all.
My color management knowledge is somewhat elemental but I wonder if that has something to do with the problem
Looking at "assign profile" in Ps it says "Don't color manage this document" and one could assign a "Working Gray" instead of "Working RGB"  :o
I think the default b&w working space in Photoshop is "dot gain 20%".  So, without a profile attached to the scanned image, photoshop will assume "dot gain20%".

Try using "assign profile" in Photoshop and assign "gamma 2.2" and see if that fixes things.  It's possible that Lightroom assumes a gamma of 2.2 for images that are not tagged with a profile.
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Bruce Alan Greene
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rabanito

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2018, 02:16:40 AM »

I think the default b&w working space in Photoshop is "dot gain 20%".  So, without a profile attached to the scanned image, photoshop will assume "dot gain20%".

Try using "assign profile" in Photoshop and assign "gamma 2.2" and see if that fixes things.  It's possible that Lightroom assumes a gamma of 2.2 for images that are not tagged with a profile.

Looks like it solves the problem.
Thank you very much, Bruce
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smthopr

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2018, 02:04:46 PM »

Looks like it solves the problem.
Thank you very much, Bruce
Woo Hoo!  A happy ending :)

You can change the defualt b&w working space in Photoshop under "preferences".  Reset it to gamma 2.2 and you will not need to assign the profile to every scanned image.
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Bruce Alan Greene
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rabanito

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Re: Scanned images in BW differ in LR from PS
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 05:02:27 PM »

Woo Hoo!  A happy ending :)

You can change the defualt b&w working space in Photoshop under "preferences".  Reset it to gamma 2.2 and you will not need to assign the profile to every scanned image.


Whew! I was afraid I'd have to this on every pic. It worked too  :)
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