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Author Topic: Landscape article - Peter Eastway  (Read 6474 times)

32BT

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2018, 04:16:52 am »

How about perspective distortion?

I think this: https://fstoppers.com/photo/282017

is a great picture. Apart from perspective it seems factual, all be it processed to modern taste. Yet the perspective seems congruent in alluding to Asian naive landscape drawing. So, both as an artistic expression as well as a factual document it appears to be an honest representation of reality. Just not in a way that we perceive reality under normal circumstances.


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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2018, 04:27:44 am »

I find it interesting that some people go to the movies and are not bothered by CGI and what are in fact computer generated movies; and then cry out loud "fake" when photographs are the subject of discussion.

I suppose the Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz was real? Is it more real to have a person with a costume, or do it in the computer?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2018, 08:10:10 am »

... Art is not reality. Photography is art. Therefore photography is not reality!

Aaaaaagggghhhhh! (Sorry, thatís the sound of my blood boiling at yet another iteration of this ridiculous debate.)

It think you would do your blood pressure a favor by not creating straw men that cause your blood to boil in the first place.

amolitor

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2018, 08:53:51 am »

Paulo, the problem (never cited in these thing pieces) is the gap between expectation and reality. Nobody expects movies to be real, unless it's marketed as a documentary.

People do expect photos to be real in some sense, some of the time. And it's not as simple as "in the newspaper, Yes; on a gallery wall, No."
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2018, 09:05:43 am »

Just to throw my hat into this ring, I tend to side with Andrewís (amolitor) views on the matter.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 05:48:51 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2018, 10:48:21 am »

Fake, but pretty
Instead of digital art or fake, I just thought of a good word for photos that have been photoshopped that way: Super-reality photography. Then everyone can be happy.  Purists like me will be happy that they're not called straight photography and those that like them can feel that they're as honest as an unretouched photo.

Mark D Segal

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2018, 10:53:25 am »

Instead of digital art or fake, I just thought of a good word for photos that have been photoshopped that way: Super-reality photography. Then everyone can be happy.  Purists like me will be happy that they're not called straight photography and those that like them can feel that they're as honest as an unretouched photo.

What's a "purist" Alan?
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LesPalenik

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2018, 11:23:55 am »

Instead of digital art or fake, I just thought of a good word for photos that have been photoshopped that way: Super-reality photography. Then everyone can be happy.  Purists like me will be happy that they're not called straight photography and those that like them can feel that they're as honest as an unretouched photo.

Or superbly processed.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2018, 11:39:09 am »

Just to mention that the concept of Ideal(ized) Landscape is a known concept in paintings. In other words, photography did not invent that concept, i.e., the attempt to represent reality the way we would like to see it, not the way it is.

amolitor

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2018, 12:02:28 pm »

There are grey area all over the place here, what looks real versus not-real, and so on. The fact that lines between things are not sharply defined should not be taken as an indication that there are not two different (or 100 different) things.

The "all photos are manipulated" argument is used to justify infinite manipulation, by pretending that the absence of sharp lines indicates the absence of categories entirely. The "well, it's all subjective, what's too much to one view is not enough to another" again pretends that because there is no clear distinction, no distinction at all is necessary. And yet again the argument that "what is too much for this photo is not for this other" follows the same pattern.
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luxborealis

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2018, 12:23:16 pm »

Kind of reminds me of a Trooper song from the 1970s... Round, Round We Go. Interestingly, another song on the same album is Raise a Little Hell.

Iím with Andrew Molitor and Dave on Skye as well, but itís helpful to read the different perspectives and shades of grey.
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faberryman

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2018, 12:41:35 pm »

There are grey area all over the place here, what looks real versus not-real, and so on. The fact that lines between things are not sharply defined should not be taken as an indication that there are not two different (or 100 different) things. The "all photos are manipulated" argument is used to justify infinite manipulation, by pretending that the absence of sharp lines indicates the absence of categories entirely. The "well, it's all subjective, what's too much to one view is not enough to another" again pretends that because there is no clear distinction, no distinction at all is necessary. And yet again the argument that "what is too much for this photo is not for this other" follows the same pattern.
I agree. It is about establishing parameters rather than absolutes.

rabanito

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2018, 12:44:19 pm »

Would anyone say that W. Turner was less a landscapist than J. Constable?
IMO they were just different artists
They are probably not exhibited together, but that's all
Same in photography, just a different medium for more or less the same underlying idea
Again in IMHO
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VincentDJohnson

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2018, 01:08:21 pm »

Long and short of it is, nobody ever called Jerry Uelsmann a "fake", because he was clear about what he was doing. What makes some of these landscapes so amazing is the fact that most of us are lead to believe by the artist that they are factual and that's what blows us away. The fact that they were able to capture this moment not that they were able to fabricate it.

I choose not to fabricate my landscapes, so why should I be competing with fabricated ones in a contest, unless it's absolutely clear that fabrication is allowed? And then where do we stop? Can I create a elements that didn't exist and add them in via Photoshop, or is it just allowed if I took it from another "factual" image?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2018, 01:13:20 pm »

... What makes some of these landscapes so amazing is the fact that most of us are lead to believe by the artist that they are factual and that's what blows us away. The fact that they were able to capture this moment not that they were able to fabricate it...

Can someone point out which of the images that illustrate the OP article are "fabricated" and in which way?

faberryman

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2018, 01:15:35 pm »

I choose not to fabricate my landscapes, so why should I be competing with fabricated ones in a contest, unless it's absolutely clear that fabrication is allowed?[/quote]
Compete on the quality of your images. Some people like straight photography; others fantasy. There is room for both. It is not a zero sum game.

OmerV

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2018, 01:21:58 pm »

I wonder if this is more a problem for landscape than urban or cityscape photography. I think that since the majority of the population now resides in urban environments, rural and wild landscapes are actually a bit of a mystery, romanticized, idealized, and sentimentalized. If that is true, then the expectation of beauty in landscape photograpy is sustained more by imagination than truth.

amolitor

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2018, 01:29:06 pm »

"the quality of your images" is a phrase sufficiently vague as to be meaningless, as nearly as I can tell.

The trouble is that a landscape which more or less captures what it really looked like is one thing, and a photoshop job is another.

In the first instance, the photographer ought to be judged (roughly) on their ability to see what is in front of them, and to select the right vantage point, moment, and so on. The photographer's ability to translate that wonderous real world at that moment into something we can see and feel for ourselves.

The fabricator, on the other hand, should be judged perhaps on the power of their imagination and their ability to turn it into something we can see and feel for ourselves.

The two, really, are not comparable. If we don't know which one the picture is, or perhaps more accurately where on the spectrum it lands, or at any rate roughly where it lands in the multivariate space of possibilities, then we will end up judging it by the wrong criteria. If, for example, someone paints in a decisive moment, we need to know that, lest we judge them instead on their ability not to paint but to anticipate. Painting being in many cases easier than anticipating, we might overrate the photographer's skill. Conversely, a straight photograph that looks like a painting deserves to be judged on  the former standard, rather than the latter.

One does not enter a walrus into the hog competition at the fair.
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amolitor

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2018, 01:32:05 pm »

In my limited experience, people who shoot in  urban environments are if anything worse than landscape photographers, forever erasing logos from  hats and moving signposts around. Sometimes it's just a little trivial cleanup, but as often as not they're simplifying a complex urban landscape into something much cleaner and more graphical than it really was.
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dchew

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Re: Landscape article - Peter Eastway
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2018, 01:47:37 pm »

I think this is an important point to remember. A lot of landscapes today look like sci-fi renderings of other planets from my youth. Many are beautiful, but entirely false. It initiates the discussion of photography vs. photo illustration, which never ends well.

One of my all-time favorite "landscapes" from my "youth":
 8)

Dave

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