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Author Topic: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?  (Read 52694 times)

jeremyrh

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #500 on: September 06, 2019, 03:09:42 am »


I am fully aware that mirrorless is the future and as of now the H6D-100c remains my only digital camera with a mirror, but this doesn't mean that we are already there.


Much as I love my Z7 I can't quite bring myself to sell my D850. Maybe I will do so to fund a Z10 :-)
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kers

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #501 on: September 06, 2019, 04:38:26 am »

Much as I love my Z7 I can't quite bring myself to sell my D850. Maybe I will do so to fund a Z10 :-)
+1  love the camera, although the Z's are better for some purposes like video.
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Pieter Kers
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #502 on: September 06, 2019, 06:57:38 am »

Much as I love my Z7 I can't quite bring myself to sell my D850. Maybe I will do so to fund a Z10 :-)

The D850 is indeed a super nice camera and I sometimes regret selling it, but I was hardly ever using it and felt a need to simplify... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

RobertJ

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #503 on: September 09, 2019, 08:33:24 pm »

Looks like we'll be seeing an 83MP FF Canon RF body coming soon, which makes sense, since the latest APS Canon sensor is 32.5MP.  It will go nicely with those RF f/1.2L lenses.

https://www.canonrumors.com/patent-83mp-full-frame-image-sensor-from-canon
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #504 on: September 11, 2019, 09:28:43 pm »

It was just highlighted that Nikon hasn't announced a single ILC in nearly 13 months.

We know they have been working on a D6, no big surprise here, but the real question is what they have been working on in the mirrorless world.

Here is my guess:
- APS-C mirrorless range
- Z5 low end FF body
- Z9 sports camera and Z8 high res body

What's yours?

Cheers,
Bernard

RobertJ

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #505 on: September 11, 2019, 10:05:02 pm »

It was just highlighted that Nikon hasn't announced a single ILC in nearly 13 months.

We know they have been working on a D6, no big surprise here, but the real question is what they have been working on in the mirrorless world.

Here is my guess:
- APS-C mirrorless range
- Z5 low end FF body
- Z9 sports camera and Z8 high res body

I just hope Nikon doesn't wait 2 years to release something new.  There's a chance they haven't been working on anything in the mirrorless world, because they see the Z7 as their "flagship" so it must be good enough for a very long time, right?  I hope that's NOT what they're thinking, LOL.
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BJL

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #506 on: September 11, 2019, 10:17:17 pm »

It was just highlighted that Nikon hasn't announced a single ILC in nearly 13 months.

We know they have been working on a D6, no big surprise here, but the real question is what they have been working on in the mirrorless world.

Here is my guess:
- APS-C mirrorless range
- Z5 low end FF body
- Z9 sports camera and Z8 high res body

What's yours?
I guess that Nikon will announce at least #1 on your list in time for the holidays — but you knew I would say that, didn't you?!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #507 on: September 11, 2019, 10:22:21 pm »

I guess that Nikon will announce at least #1 on your list in time for the holidays — but you knew I would say that, didn't you?!

Yes, and me forecasting that they will doesn't mean I think  it's a good idea... unless they focus on the higher end segment of APS-C mirrorless where real photographers without the cash or looking for super compact may be interested.

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #508 on: September 12, 2019, 01:54:45 pm »

... unless they focus on the higher end segment of APS-C mirrorless where real photographers without the cash or looking for super compact may be interested.
You just blind-sided me by saying something I completely agree with!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #509 on: September 12, 2019, 02:44:35 pm »

You just blind-sided me by saying something I completely agree with!

Perhaps we’ve agreed all along! :)

To me APS-C isn’t necessarily dead as a sensor size. Fuji X will continue to be successful for example.

The segment I see dying is the 300-400 US$ low end bodies that make up 90% of APS-C volume.

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #510 on: September 12, 2019, 03:49:44 pm »

Perhaps we’ve agreed all along! :)

To me APS-C isn’t necessarily dead as a sensor size. Fuji X will continue to be successful for example.

The segment I see dying is the 300-400 US$ low end bodies that make up 90% of APS-C volume.

Cheers,
Bernard

Yeh, they'll raise the price to $700 and continue selling them. ;D
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #511 on: September 12, 2019, 04:09:35 pm »

Yeh, they'll raise the price to $700 and continue selling them. ;D

As strange as it may seem, I know at least 2 guys making in excess of 200,000 US$ a year who were very reluctant to spend more than 400 US$ on a DSLR kit... so no, they won't sell many at 700 US$.

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #512 on: September 12, 2019, 07:46:22 pm »

As strange as it may seem, I know at least 2 guys making in excess of 200,000 US$ a year who were very reluctant to spend more than 400 US$ on a DSLR kit... so no, they won't sell many at 700 US$.

Cheers,
Bernard

I can tell you this much...there are at least 10x the number of people buying a $400 camera than a $2,000 camera...even with the fall of camera sales.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #513 on: September 13, 2019, 12:55:41 am »

I can tell you this much...there are at least 10x the number of people buying a $400 camera than a $2,000 camera...even with the fall of camera sales.

But this is about to end.

The number of people buying 400 US$ DSLRs will slowly but surely decrease towards not much while the number of people buying 2,000 US$ cameras will stay pretty much stable.

Cheers,
Bernard

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #514 on: September 13, 2019, 02:29:46 am »

But this is about to end.

The number of people buying 400 US$ DSLRs will slowly but surely decrease towards not much while the number of people buying 2,000 US$ cameras will stay pretty much stable.

Cheers,
Bernard

I believe that is your own cognitive bias speaking Bernard as you cannot possible have any evidence to support this point of view. And no, two people you know that do something to support your bias doesn’t constitute data.

Phone companies are in all sorts of trouble with declining sales and are running out of features to attract new sales and encourage people to upgrade their phones. I keep a phone 3 to 4 years now compared to 18 months back in the day. Cameras are a thing they can point to as a new feature so that’s what is happening. Sony with their sensor division are the obvious winner here.

 I think it just as likely people will be introduced to photography with their phones and then decide to take it more seriously and buy an actual camera. I cant say my scenario is any more likely that your scenario but I do know people that have gone this route just as you know people that have stopped using cameras in favor of a phone. People like shiny stuff and a camera is more shiny stuff.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #515 on: September 13, 2019, 03:21:43 am »

We will see...

But considering that Canon and Nikon basically already sell only ILC (they sell very little in value related to digital compact cameras), the current sharp drop mostly already results from APS-C DSLRs not selling much any more. Even if Canon has some modern mirrorless APS-C bodies (that Nikon doesn’t have).

This can only speed up as phones continue to improve and get closer to/go beyond the absolute level of quality and functional people need.

I am not deriving this from my 2 friends, I only used them as a hint about the price sensitivity of people for cameras “when they have a very good camera phone already”.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #516 on: September 13, 2019, 10:55:06 am »


Phone companies are in all sorts of trouble with declining sales and are running out of features to attract new sales and encourage people to upgrade their phones. I keep a phone 3 to 4 years now compared to 18 months back in the day. Cameras are a thing they can point to as a new feature so that’s what is happening. Sony with their sensor division are the obvious winner here.

I'm not sure this is true (disclosure:  I have owned stock in Verizon for a lot of years).  My carrier has been charging for phone upgrades for several years now and the feature packed phones whether Android or IPhones cost about $700.  They may give you some token trade in for the old phone but that's it.  You can also get unlimited data plans for a reasonable price.  Even though they are rolling out 5G it's not apparent that for me, a casual user, that this something that will make me upgrade.
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faberryman

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #517 on: September 13, 2019, 10:59:05 am »

I am using an iPhone 4S and have no desire to upgrade. Not sure why anyone upgrades.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #518 on: September 13, 2019, 12:46:28 pm »

I am using an iPhone 4S and have no desire to upgrade. Not sure why anyone upgrades.
You upgrade when the battery dies, unless battery replacement is inexpensive.  'Simple' user replacement of batteries is a thing of the past.
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faberryman

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #519 on: September 13, 2019, 01:00:10 pm »

You upgrade when the battery dies, unless battery replacement is inexpensive.  'Simple' user replacement of batteries is a thing of the past.
Replace the battery or spend $1000 on a new phone.? Let’s see...
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