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Author Topic: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?  (Read 52785 times)

Dan Wells

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #100 on: December 08, 2018, 12:02:20 am »

I'd forgotten about the ultra-low ISO mode on those old Kodaks... The shots I saw from them at ISO 80 were also pretty darned impressive - but the original 1Ds was good up to its top ISO of 1250 (I'd forgotten how ISO-limited those old cameras were, too).
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #101 on: December 08, 2018, 02:30:01 am »

Interesting photo, Bernard. But why did you not raise the shadows, especially considering that the D3 was renowned for its ground-breaking low noise?  ;)

Is this version not better? Hope you don't mind.

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the suggestion but the original is much closer to the dark atmosphere of the building as I remember it. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Rado

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2018, 03:48:14 pm »

I've done a fashion shot this weekend with the EOS R and my EF (Sigma) lenses. Several hundreds of shots at f2-3.2 with everything between wide angle and telephoto. I have yet to find one that is out of focus. As far as I'm concerned the winner of this "war" is me.
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Dan Wells

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #103 on: December 10, 2018, 01:18:23 am »

We all win if we get the manufacturers to push each other...
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JaapD

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #104 on: December 10, 2018, 03:17:30 am »

I don’t think “Micro 4/3 is the worst possible currently manufactured choice for high-detail landscape”. I do see benefits due to the huge depth of field, portability, flight-weight restrictions, tripod requirements, and modern complex lens designs providing sharp images from edge to edge.

On the other hand, what’s the use of an abundance of pixels while having soft(er) corners, not providing the resolution you’ll get with Micro 4/3 in the first place? I’m referring to companies slowwwwly updating their lens portfolio from the film days.

All in all for high-detail landscape I think Sony has the best cards in hand with their latest lens designs and Nikon one of the worst.

Another thing is: how large do you print and how many pixels do you actually need for that? I already get very good results from 200dpi on 20x30 inch (24Mpix) sent to a Durst Lambda printer on Fuji Crystal Archive paper.

Let me end by saying that I do not possess a Micro 4/3 nor a Sony camera so I don’t have to defend them in any way.

Regards,
Jaap.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 08:17:09 am by JaapD »
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Dan Wells

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #105 on: December 10, 2018, 08:15:04 pm »

Sony has some good cards in hand with very capable bodies and some excellent full-frame lenses (along with some lousy ones)- wish they'd fix their weather sealing and user interfaces. Their APS-C lenses are more or less uniformly lousy, with a few exceptions. The 16-50 pancake zoom may have the dubious honor of "worst interchangeable lens currently in production, unless you count deliberately bad lenses like Lensbabies". I completely agree with you that some of the newer FE lenses are really excellent (from the few shots I've grabbed on friends' cameras) - although many of them are big.

Nikon Z is very promising - we'll see how the lens portfolio fills out, but the initial lenses are excellent, especially for the size. The Nikkor Z 24-70 f4 is not anything like the old Sony 24-70 f4 "Zeiss" - it's a small, light and VERY sharp lens. The Sony 24-70 G-master is as sharp as the Nikkor, and a stop faster, but it's twice the weight. If the 14-30 f4 is anything like the 24-70, it'll be a two lens hiking kit that can't be beat.

There are certainly some very old F-mount Nikkors still in the line that are nothing special, as well as a lot of truly lousy Nikon APS-C lenses (many of which are superzooms), but there are a bunch of newer ones that are excellent.

Micro 4/3 has some excellent lenses, but I've never found the best of them (other than certain primes) to be smaller or cheaper than equally good lenses for larger formats. There are certainly some tiny Micro 4/3 lenses, but the good ones aren't tiny for the most part, and the tiny ones aren't good. The real advantages of Micro 4/3 are speed and stabilization (especially the E-M1 mk II), video (mostly Panasonic) and ultra-compact size if you're willing to take significant IQ loss (small bodies with small, but compromised lenses) - not take-no-prisoners image quality.

Micro 4/3 and EVERY APS-C system except Fuji are held back by the kit lenses, not the bodies. You simply can't make a decent lens that adds only $100 to the kit price!

Canon has a great lens line - I wish I was as excited about their sensors. Toss a top-end Sony sensor in a Canon body, and it would be an amazing setup. The EF-R mirrorless lenses are made for a body we haven't seen yet...

Fuji has the closest thing to a uniformly very good or better lens line (and they're nice enough to label their few lousy lenses XC and the good ones XF). Their answer to really high resolution is small medium format, which is an interesting proposition - too big and heavy for me (especially the lenses). It won't reach its full potential until they're using a newer sensor (the 5 year old 50 MP sensor is very close in overall image quality to the much newer D850/Z7 sensor - but a 100 MP sensor with 16-bit output may well pull away).

I happen to shoot Fuji APS-C and Nikon Z, so they're what I know best.
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JaapD

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #106 on: December 11, 2018, 01:09:57 am »

Hi Dan, I fully agree on everything you say about Fuji, except that I don't find their lenses too big or heavy.

With respect to Micro 4/3, yes, skip the kit lenses and directly move to the Olympus PRO line.

Nikon lenses are promising? Well I first need to see proof of that as I’m not impressed. Sony is doing a much better job here with their G-Master range. Scope: everyone can build a lens giving a sharp image in the center. These days a lens shall also be sharp near the edges.

Regards,
Jaap.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 01:23:15 am by JaapD »
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kpz

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #107 on: December 11, 2018, 02:04:10 am »

Micro 4/3 has some excellent lenses, but I've never found the best of them (other than certain primes) to be smaller or cheaper than equally good lenses for larger formats. There are certainly some tiny Micro 4/3 lenses, but the good ones aren't tiny for the most part, and the tiny ones aren't good. The real advantages of Micro 4/3 are speed and stabilization (especially the E-M1 mk II), video (mostly Panasonic) and ultra-compact size if you're willing to take significant IQ loss (small bodies with small, but compromised lenses) - not take-no-prisoners image quality.

I have a quick elaboration on this, since I was researching the m43 system for a possible purchase recently. All the lenses seem quite poorly corrected for distortion, as a kind of design compromise because post-processing software is so good at lens corrections these days. Some details are provided here:
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3511661

Unfortunately there is a measurable image quality price to pay for that post-processing:
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/you-can-correct-it-in-post-but/
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JaapD

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #108 on: December 11, 2018, 07:12:35 am »

A lens design is always a compromise. These days lens designs are very complex with all kinds of special glass and curved surfaces. During the design phase a predefined choice has been made on which aspects will be corrected optically and which can easier/better be corrected electronically (i.e. distorsion). In the end the sum of optical and electronic corrections is all what counts.

Regards,
Jaap.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #109 on: December 11, 2018, 11:21:18 am »

Sony has some good cards in hand with very capable bodies and some excellent full-frame lenses (along with some lousy ones)- wish they'd fix their weather sealing and user interfaces. Their APS-C lenses are more or less uniformly lousy, with a few exceptions. The 16-50 pancake zoom may have the dubious honor of "worst interchangeable lens currently in production, unless you count deliberately bad lenses like Lensbabies". I completely agree with you that some of the newer FE lenses are really excellent (from the few shots I've grabbed on friends' cameras) - although many of them are big.

..................

I happen to shoot Fuji APS-C and Nikon Z, so they're what I know best.

Where do you get this stuff from? Would DxO Mark for example support your contention that Sony APS-C lenses are "more or less uniformly lousy"? Or is all this just from a few shots you've grabbed from other peoples' cameras?

I've been using Sony mirrorless cameras for years and have tried numerous lenses on them. I am currently using an a6300 camera with three zoom lenses and I think I know a thing or two about the strengths and weaknesses of these systems from first-hand experience. So I'll share a few first hand items of experience: (1) the menu system, never good, has improved from one model to the next. It is now usable though far from ideal. (2) Auto-focusing is not good - it can be very accurate but depending on conditions can spend far too much time seeking a focal point and then getting it wrong. I believe there may be better systems on the market. (3) Sony's stubborn refusal to release information on a safe solution for cleaning their sensors is a blight on that company's reputation. (4) With these cameras one can make excellent photographs (from my experience enlarged to 17x22 inch paper with one inch borders) because sensor performance is excellent and a number of their lenses are tack-sharp. Always bearing in mind there is sample variability with any zoom lens, from my usage I can confirm that the Sony 55-210 OSS pulls in fine, sharp detail from afar beautifully, the Zeiss/Sony Vario Tessar 16-70mm ZA OSS is a very fine lens that covers a high percentage of all my needs with this camera, and the Sony E4 10-18mm OSS is the best super wide-angle lens of the four others I've tested and rejected. I did a review of this lens on this website - you can check the performance there - it isn't MTF charts, it's real experience. I can't speak for camera systems I haven't personally worked with, but this one I know somethings about.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Dan Wells

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #110 on: December 11, 2018, 12:35:50 pm »

The Fuji lenses I was calling big and heavy are their medium format line. They're using small medium format as a response to 40+ MP full-frame, and it's an interesting choice, but held back by big lenses. The 5 year old 50 MP medium format sensor is pretty much directly comparable to the newest 46 MP BSI sensor found in the D850 and Z7, and has only a small advantage over the 42+ MP sensor in the A7rII and A7rIII (from comparisons online and from looking at large prints from all three at PhotoPlus - the only one of the three I have direct experience with is the Nikon, which I chose after careful comparisons of output).  Only the Nikon version of the 40+ MP Sony BSI sensor has ISO 64, which brings DR and noise that last little step to compete with the medium format sensor. When Fuji gets ahold of a newer MF sensor, their choice may very well pay off.

The Nikkor Z 24-70 is a very sharp lens except in the extreme corners (so far out that they're often hidden under the mat board, and can be cropped out very darned easily).  The corners aren't horrible - this is not an APS-C kit lens... Think 24-70 f2.8 or better (your choice, Nikkor, Canon or Sony G-Master) across most of the frame, with corners from a 24-120 Nikkor or some other decent compact FF lens. Don't worry about the corners - marvel at 4x5" image quality in a small package with weather sealing and stabilization. The Z7/24-70 is the sharpest camera/ lens combination I've ever used (medium format and A7rII or III are outside my experience, although I've used an original A7r quite a bit), and by a significant margin, too.

I don't consider Fuji APS-C lenses big or heavy at all - in fact, Micro 4/3 pro lenses are excellent, but big and heavy by comparison to Fuji lenses, especially given that the sensor size gives up a stop.  The best example is the Olympus Pro 12-40 f2.8 vs. the equally good Fujinon 18-55 f2.8-4. They're both excellent standard zooms, but the Olympus is a bit bulkier and heavier (about 25%) despite the smaller format. Olympus fans will say "that's not fair - the Olympus Pro needs to go up against the bigger and heavier Fujinon 16-55 f2.8, not the 18-55 f2.8-4".

Once you consider the sensor size, the smaller Fujinon is actually a faster lens in most respects (by a full stop at wide angle, part of a stop through much of the zoom range, and they're the same speed at full extension). The Fujinon 16-55 f2.8 that is sometimes cited as the appropriate comparison is a full stop faster throughout the zoom range. This applies both from the viewpoint of bokeh and subject isolation and from a noise and image quality standpoint.

Is the Olympus Pro a "better lens" than the Fujinon? The proof of that would be in which lens one could make an image that looked better in a print with - whether it printed larger, or was more to your taste at the same size... I have never used a Micro 4/3 camera with the most modern 20 MP sensor seriously, but I've used that Pro lens on the 16 MP sensor extensively. It's a very good lens, and I've gotten good results out of it, but I've gotten better results out of even the 16 MP Fujis (X-T1) with the 18-55. The latest 24 MP Fujis (X-T2 and X-H1) are in a different league - they offer substantially more detail and less noise with the 18-55 mounted on them. Comparing the lens and sensor combination may not be fair, but it's reality - a Micro 4/3 lens could be perfect, but it will go on a sensor that gives up quite a bit to larger sensors and it cannot go on another sensor.

 That doesn't mean that Micro 4/3 always loses, either. If you had a Nikon D3500 with a very similar sensor to the Fuji, but with the Nikkor 18-55 kit lens, I have very little doubt that the Olympus Pro would win easily. Even more so against Sony APS-C with their usual kit lens - that 16-50 pancake is terrible (and DxOMark, etc. point that out - DxO says it resolves 6 "perceptual megapixels", the lowest score of any lens). I've never really shot Sony other than a few borrowed cameras (some for significant periods, though - I have a friend with about four systems at any given time, and I've grabbed his Sonys for many hundreds of images, including taking one home for weeks) , but I was shocked when a student once handed me his a5100 with the 16-50, and I could see the lens distortion in the viewing screen before taking the picture - that's hard to do, other than with ultra-wide lenses (fisheyes are, of course, the extreme example), deliberately distorted lenses, or by staring at graph paper.

 Yes, there are better Sony APS-C lenses than that one (all the rest, one hopes), but that's what you tend to get with a body, even the a6500. They have discontinued their 18-55 (just like Canon and Nikon's cheap 18-55s) in favor of the even worse 16-50. I just checked Sony's site 5 minutes ago, and they offer the a5100 and a6000 only with the 16-50 or as body-only. With the a6300 and a6500, the 16-50 is the first option, but you can also get an 18-135. B+H will sell those bodies with a much better 16-70 Zeiss, but there's no discount compared to buying body and lens separately. Sony's pushing the execrable 16-50, so it's fair to compare...

 I've used the Sony 10-18 a few times - my friend with various cameras has one, and it's a very nice lens. I prefer the Fujinon 10-24 for the range (the overlap with longer lenses between 18 and 24 is nice), but they are certainly comparable in image quality. I've never seen a 16-70 Zeiss except on a shelf, but it could very well be great (it should be, for the price - it's comparable in price to the Fujinon 16-55 f2.8 when there's a good rebate on the Fujinon, so that's the standard it needs to meet) - if it is as good as that, Sony has something that Canon and Nikon don't - a really good dedicated APS-C standard zoom. Wish they'd put it in the kit with the higher end bodies and give a nice discount on it.

Micro 4/3 does always lose in overall image quality at base ISO against a larger format with a comparable lens. There are numerous caveats in that statement, though!!! I'm far from a Micro 4/3 basher - they don't fit my shooting style or subject matter, but I think they're among the most interesting cameras out there. The most general caveat is with a comparable lens. Below full-frame, only Fuji has as good a lens lineup as Micro 4/3 - I'd far rather have Micro 4/3 with a good lens than Canon, Nikon or Sony APS-C with a kit lens (any comparison of kit lens to kit lens without either a Fuji or a full-frame camera in it can effectively ignore the sensor - none of the cheapies come close to what the sensors can do).

 This is made more interesting because Canon, Nikon and Sony all have APS-C lineups made up largely of kit-type lenses (several variants of literal kit 18-55s plus cheap tele zooms and various superzooms). All have a few better lenses that break that mold, but none have anywhere close to a full line of them (Thom Hogan loves to criticize Nikon for this, but Sony's no better and Canon's only a bit better). Fuji has the only full line of decent APS-C lenses...

Another place where Micro 4/3 often wins is when nothing else will get the shot (or only a few particular "something elses", all of which are much heavier and/or more expensive). The E-M1 mk II in particular is an unusually fast camera with a really special image stabilization system. You can't get that night cityscape at 1/2 second with anything else other than a tripod... The action shot at a sporting event? An E-M1 mk II has a better chance than anything except a D5 or a 1Dx mk II...

The third advantage of Micro 4/3 is at the extreme edge of compactness. Different bodies (the best Micro 4/3 bodies are the size of APS-C or even full-frame mirrorless, but there are ultracompact bodies that give up weather seals, battery life and even the viewfinder), different lenses (no lovely Pro lenses need apply), but you can build a compromised kit the size of many compact cameras. Yes it's compromised compared to most interchangeable lens cameras, but it's better than any compact camera (except a few exotics - Sony Rx1 series or some Leicas).
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 12:48:38 pm by Dan Wells »
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kpz

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #111 on: December 11, 2018, 01:00:50 pm »

(2) Auto-focusing is not good - it can be very accurate but depending on conditions can spend far too much time seeking a focal point and then getting it wrong. I believe there may be better systems on the market.

Hi Mark, thanks for your comments. I'm wondering about this one in particular, because reviews seem to indicate that, among mirrorless cameras, Sony has industry-leading autofocus, and in particular the best eye-detect autofocus. Are you speaking of performance versus mirrorless or DSLRs here? What systems have you found to be better? (I ask as I might be purchasing a camera in the near future.)
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sdwilsonsct

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #112 on: December 11, 2018, 01:02:28 pm »

I've been using Sony mirrorless cameras for years and have tried numerous lenses on them.

Good synopsis, Mark. I'll add that the "worst interchangeable lens currently in production" produced a 5 x 2 foot canvas print that looks pretty good to me, and that I have come to prefer Sony's quick settings access over those in Canon bodies. I use both systems.

Mark D Segal

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #113 on: December 11, 2018, 01:32:05 pm »

Hi Mark, thanks for your comments. I'm wondering about this one in particular, because reviews seem to indicate that, among mirrorless cameras, Sony has industry-leading autofocus, and in particular the best eye-detect autofocus. Are you speaking of performance versus mirrorless or DSLRs here? What systems have you found to be better? (I ask as I might be purchasing a camera in the near future.)

Hi kpz,

To be very specific about auto-focus experience - if I'm outdoors in good lighting photographing subject matter that has substantial contrast, for example wall art, auto-focus works just fine. Could be a bit zippier perhaps, but it's really good enough for things that are well lit and don't move. When it comes to photographing children indoors it's a whole different ball-game. For one thing, the lighting is dimmer than outdoors, and for another, those kids never stop moving and their facial expressions never stop changing. The a6300 and all its predecessors, between focusing and actually making the exposure are just too darn slow to capture the moment you were aiming at. By the time the camera manages to expose, either the kid's position or facial expression has changed; I normally try to focus on their eyes; it's very frustrating to push an exposure button and nothing happens while the focus is seeking and the subject matter changes. The electronics of focusing and capturing really need to be instantaneous for doing this kind of work and as far as I'm concerned, the Sony cameras I've been using just don't cut it well enough. Obviously it's not an impossible situation and image quality can be excellent, so I'm not about to scrap what I've invested in this system, but to be brutally objective about it, I see a need for major improvement. Whether it's technically possible or not, and whether other systems (Fuji, Olympus etc.) are any better  another matter. I can't comment on what I haven't personally experienced. All I can suggest if you are in the market for buying a system, now that there are a good number of options, go to a shop where you can test for this kind of stuff on the spot and make sure to the extent possible that you will be happy with what you've bought.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Dan Wells

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #114 on: December 11, 2018, 01:43:09 pm »

100% agreed on trying the systems at least in a store (rent or borrow if you can) - and try to look at some prints from the contenders as well, as big as you'll print. At least as I've used them, Fuji, Olympus and Sony FF all have very good to excellent AF on their newer cameras. Nikon's higher-end DSLRs are excellent (probably Canon's as well, but I haven't used a higher-end Canon DSLR outside a show in at least five years). The Nikon Z's have serviceable AF - certainly excellent for what I'm using it for, but I haven't tried to shoot action since my longer lenses are for my Fujis - and I believe the folks who don't like it for that case.

AF is at least mostly objective - how a camera feels to you is completely subjective.

My personal ranking is
Nikon and Fuji
Canon and Olympus
Panasonic
Sony

It may not be a coincidence that I own Nikon and Fuji... I'm both more familiar with them and I chose what I liked. Someone else could (equally rationally) love Sony and hate Fuji. Try them all and see what fits...
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hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #115 on: December 11, 2018, 02:39:20 pm »

100% agreed on trying the systems at least in a store (rent or borrow if you can) - and try to look at some prints from the contenders as well, as big as you'll print. At least as I've used them, Fuji, Olympus and Sony FF all have very good to excellent AF on their newer cameras. Nikon's higher-end DSLRs are excellent (probably Canon's as well, but I haven't used a higher-end Canon DSLR outside a show in at least five years). The Nikon Z's have serviceable AF - certainly excellent for what I'm using it for, but I haven't tried to shoot action since my longer lenses are for my Fujis - and I believe the folks who don't like it for that case.

AF is at least mostly objective - how a camera feels to you is completely subjective.

My personal ranking is
Nikon and Fuji
Canon and Olympus
Panasonic
Sony

It may not be a coincidence that I own Nikon and Fuji... I'm both more familiar with them and I chose what I liked. Someone else could (equally rationally) love Sony and hate Fuji. Try them all and see what fits...

I'd say you need to try a camera for much longer and much more in depth than what can be done in a store. I've been using Sony cameras for about 4 years now and at first they felt awkward to shoot with...but the more I used them, the more they started to feel right...whereas now whenever I pick up my Canon 7D or Fuji X100...they are the ones that feel awkward.

It's very much like renting a car for a couple of weeks...at first it feels awkward to drive compared to what you drive everyday...but after a couple of weeks...the rental feels great...and in fact when I get back to the airport and pick up my car...it's the on the feels awkward.

Our brains are very malleable ( at least most of them are ) and adapt quite readily to whatever is thrown at them. Trying a camera out for 30 minutes just does not give your brain enough time to adapt...let alone for you to figure out all the optimal settings of the camera for the type of photography one wants to do. I see so many remarks about trying out the camera in a store and it feeling awkward ( well duh... ), it's different than what you are used to. Unless one is willing to give a camera a good couple week shake...it's a waste of time making any judgements by trying it out in a store.
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patjoja

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #116 on: December 11, 2018, 02:52:37 pm »

"Why would anyone still believe in Canon enough today to decide to invest cash on the R system?

Thoughts?"

Back to the original question...

I sold all my Canon gear earlier this year and bought the a7r3 and a couple of Sony lenses. (I already had an a7ii so I also had some experience with the system). 

I came to the same point as Bernard's thinking as he has stated many times above.  I had zero regrets about the move back then and now that the R is out, even less.  If I would have been waiting for that camera my heart would have been severely broken!  Canon is a big company and their user base and name will keep them going for a long time, but for the avid enthusiast's market that may not be enough.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #117 on: December 11, 2018, 03:00:03 pm »

I'd say you need to try a camera for much longer and much more in depth than what can be done in a store.

It depends on how experienced you are and what you are trying to do. Some things you'll know pretty quickly within an hour or so in or around a store whether you're likely to be happy or not. Other things, you are right, it takes more time. Never hurts to give a camera a good tryout on or around the premises before buying.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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hogloff

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #118 on: December 11, 2018, 03:13:29 pm »

It depends on how experienced you are and what you are trying to do. Some things you'll know pretty quickly within an hour or so in or around a store whether you're likely to be happy or not. Other things, you are right, it takes more time. Never hurts to give a camera a good tryout on or around the premises before buying.

I hear a lot of dislike about the Sony menu system...I really don't like it either...but the cameras are so customizable to the way you want to shoot, to the point the only time I really go into the menu system today is to format a card. The rest is either done by buttons or dials or the quick Fn function. Yet...trying the camera out in a store would leave you thinking it is unusable due to the cumbersome menu system. It's these quick one hour decisions that do you more harm than good, IMHO.

I'm lucky in that I have a very good relationship with a camera store which allows me to borrow their rental gear if not booked so I can use a camera or lens quite extensively before I decide to purchase. When I do purchase, I know what I am getting...not what some internet reviewer says and is extensively echoed in the internet chambers.
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JaapD

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Re: Mirrorless war - Canon vs Nikon - who is the current winner?
« Reply #119 on: December 11, 2018, 03:30:28 pm »

I recognize the dislike of Sony’s menu system, together with the small lens mount. This indeed gets echoed in the Internet chambers, keeping me away from Sony (and their great G-Master lenses). Apart from this I mentioned that Sony has the best cards in hand....

Regards,
Jaap.
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