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Author Topic: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny  (Read 16894 times)

RSL

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2018, 08:43:32 am »

It's fascinating how we differ - we as in a collective of photographers, artists, whatever, rather than RobC or KLaban. I have an entirely different approach to shooting, working. I won't so much as pick up a camera if I don't have a clear vision of what it is I want to do. I never shoot for the sake of shooting. Good thing, bad thing, dunno.

That's interesting, Keith. It's the obverse of street photography. But street photography, probably above any other kind of photography certainly requires clear vision. Without clear vision, you can spend your life on the street and never shoot anything worthwhile. I never shoot for the sake of shooting, either, but I do shoot for the sake of capturing something meaningful in front of me.
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KLaban

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2018, 08:50:27 am »

It's fascinating how we differ - we as in a collective of photographers, artists, whatever, rather than RobC or KLaban. I have an entirely different approach to shooting, working. I won't so much as pick up a camera if I don't have a clear vision of what it is I want to do. I never shoot for the sake of shooting. Good thing, bad thing, dunno.

That's interesting, Keith. It's the obverse of street photography. But street photography, probably above any other kind of photography certainly requires clear vision. Without clear vision, you can spend your life on the street and never shoot anything worthwhile. I never shoot for the sake of shooting, either, but I do shoot for the sake of capturing something meaningful in front of me.

Russ, if I have a clear vision that I want to roam the streets looking for opportunity then that will be enough for me to pick up the camera, but I will have a clear vision of what it is I want to achieve.

;-)

RSL

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2018, 08:59:00 am »

You know I have a very high opinion of your photography. But if you're doing street you can't have "a clear vision of what [you] want to achieve," unless it's simply to shoot a good picture. Until you get out there you have no idea what's out there.
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KLaban

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2018, 09:40:20 am »

You know I have a very high opinion of your photography. But if you're doing street you can't have "a clear vision of what [you] want to achieve," unless it's simply to shoot a good picture. Until you get out there you have no idea what's out there.

I have a clear vision to visit my chosen streets, to take advantage of what I find and shoot to the best of my ability. It's not knowing what it is exactly that lies around the next corner that drives me onwards.

;-)

KLaban

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2018, 10:45:33 am »

Russ, another way of putting it is that I choose my destinations for their potential (the theatre), choose my  locations (backdrops) for their interest but have little idea of the performance and cast. An example below.



I also choose the theater, choose the location and have a good idea of the performance and cast that I would like to see. The rest is patience. An example below.



And then there are the shots where I choose the destination and happen upon the location, the backdrop, the performance and cast. An Example below.



I've not a clue if any of this meets your definition of street or for that matter anyone's definition of street. I often set out to shoot on the streets but never set out to produce street.

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2018, 11:26:37 am »

I would never go out and say to myself I’m going to shoot street. It’s meaningless to me. Perhaps I might want to show how a certain area has declined or changed. Perhaps I want to communicate something about the new ethnic group that has taken over an area. Whatever it might be that will be my first thought. Not, “I’m going to shoot street.” I have never had an idea that would fit into the rules of street.

The only people who are even remotely interested in street as a genre are other photographers. Why would I want to speak only to other photographers? I will go to an area that perhaps people are afraid of or no longer visits because it’s not trendy anymore and then I’ll take photos to show what it looks like TO ME. I have done mini projects on tourists taking selfies, people waiting at an inner city train and bus station. The bored children running around parents loaded down with goods they are taking back to Kinshasa and Harare. That interests me. I shoot it for my own pleasure. To find out how I feel about things. And it turns out it’s not street. Frankly I couldn’t care less.

I find images of random hipsters and aging hippies selling crap at flea markets banal in the extreme. I don’t understand what the images are meant to communicate.  Could be it’s a cultural thing, I may speak English but I am not European or American and photos of realivley affluent people drinking cappuccinos mean absolutely nothing to me. That doesn’t mean I don’t see good “street” photography from first world countries, of course I do. Brilliant stuff. But to shoot so as to receive the accolade of qualifying as proper street seems pointless to me and a total waste of my time.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2018, 11:27:59 am »

Russ, if I have a clear vision that I want to roam the streets looking for opportunity then that will be enough for me to pick up the camera, but I will have a clear vision of what it is I want to achieve.

;-)

Not that you should care but I like your work.
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RSL

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2018, 11:29:22 am »

I've not a clue if any of this meets your definition of street or for that matter anyone's definition of street. I often set out to shoot on the streets but never set out to produce street.

Yes, it does, Keith. And what you're telling me you do is what I do too, when I'm able to do street (which isn't often nowadays). I go to places where I'm likely to find things that interest me. But it's still what Cartier-Bresson pointed out: "It's luck that matters. You just have to be receptive. That's all."
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KLaban

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2018, 12:07:03 pm »

Not that you should care but I like your work.

Martin, I care very much and thank you.

Rob C

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2018, 12:11:49 pm »

Yes, it does, Keith. And what you're telling me you do is what I do too, when I'm able to do street (which isn't often nowadays). I go to places where I'm likely to find things that interest me. But it's still what Cartier-Bresson pointed out: "It's luck that matters. You just have to be receptive. That's all."

Well there you go, I would not classify Keith's posted shots as street at all. I would describe them as travel atmospherics. Maybe I have a natural affinity (I didn't write ability) for observing the value of classification - a need even - because of my Tony Stone days (stock library), where everything had its genre, the hole it had to fit and satisfy.

Street, for me, takes on roughly three required dimensions: it has ambiguity most of the time; it is an observation of the quirkiness of humanity; it reveals a tension of one kind or another. It has nothing at all to do with beauty. It can also, I guess, be called street when it is an aggressive style of work as practised by some of the late American guys such as Winogrand and perhaps that guy who sticks a flash gun in folk's faces. I think he's with Magnum, but I can't be bothered to seek him out because that isn't to me, true, classical street, it's shock caused by photographer and defeats the art of observation because it is the art of provocation.

Which leaves the confusion surrounding Saul Leiter. No way do I see any tensions or possible threats in his oeuvre; my favourite shots of his do, sometimes, have people but often so disguised (through misted up windows etc.) that those figures are but suggestions of humanity. His street work (simply because that's where it is shot) that consists of colours and blurs and things seen through windows are, to me, street art, which is not street in the other senses.

Sounds rather complex in the telling, but to me, crystal clear.

;-)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 12:38:52 pm by Rob C »
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KLaban

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2018, 12:14:38 pm »

Yes, it does, Keith. And what you're telling me you do is what I do too, when I'm able to do street (which isn't often nowadays). I go to places where I'm likely to find things that interest me. But it's still what Cartier-Bresson pointed out: "It's luck that matters. You just have to be receptive. That's all."

Russ, nice quote that sums up much of what I do. Hope you can get out and about when it cools down a little.

Apologies to Ivo for taking this thread off topic, but at least we're conversing.

KLaban

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2018, 12:20:53 pm »

Rob, a lot of street that I see here amounts to visual pun.

As I've said I'm not interested in street as a genre but love walking the streets.

Again, ooh er missus.

;-)

Ivophoto

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2018, 12:21:12 pm »

Russ, nice quote that sums up much of what I do. Hope you can get out and about when it cools down a little.

Apologies to Ivo for taking this thread off topic, but at least we're conversing.

And that is just fine, Keith.
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RSL

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2018, 12:34:16 pm »

Well there you go, I would not classify Keith's posted shots as street at all. I would describe them as travel atmospherics. Maybe I have a natural affinity (I didn't write ability) for observing the value of classification - a need even - because of my Tony Stone days (stock library), where everything had its genre, the hole it had to fit and satisfy.

Street, for me, takes on roughly three required dimensions: it has ambiguity most of the time; it is an observation of the quirkiness of humanity; it reveals a tension of one kind or another. It has nothing at all to do with beauty. It can also, I guess, be called street when it is an aggressive style of work as practised by some of the late American guys such as Winogrand and perhaps that guy who sticks a flash gun in folk's faces. I think he's with Magnum, but I can't be bothered to seek him out because that isn't to me, true, classical street, it's shock caused by photographer and defeats the art of observation because it is the art of provocation.

Which leaves the confusion surrounding Saul Leiter. No way do I see any tensions or possible threats in his oeuvre; my favourite shots of his do, sometimes, have people but often so disguised (through misted up windows etc.) that those figures are but suggestions of humanity. His street work (simply because that's where it is shot) that consists of colours and blurs and things seen through windows are, to me, street art, which is not street in the other senses.

Sounds ratherr complex in the telling, but to me, crystal clear.

;-)

Hi Rob,

I agree with what you’re saying. To me, too, what Keith is doing is travel atmospherics, not street. But the approach is the same even if the intention is quite different. But then, how would you categorize my lady with the umbrella? I shot that fifty years ago – Leica M4. There’s really no ambiguity there. It probably is an observation on the quirkyness of humanity, though mostly because people no longer walk the street looking like that. And it’s not beautiful in the usual sense, though the composition grabs me. There’s something about the tilt of that umbrella. . .
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Ivo_B

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2018, 12:42:20 pm »

Jumping back some posts...

Guidance to observe is intrinsically something else than guidance to create.
Technical guidance (the photo technical stuff such as rule of thirds, DOF as composition tool, etc) is not the same as conceptual guidance (the visual language)

Two extreme examples:
Bare technical language such as: Eloquent emptiness
vs
Bare visual language such as: Slang to tell a meaningful story.

I see it more holistic, a photograph is built in several layers: the conceptual layer, the substantive layer, the technical layer, maybe for all these layers men could figure out categories, or find a position on a ‘clock’, whatever the quadrant represent. Call it keystones?
How the keystones look like is not important on such, it is important there is a point of orientation, like a lighthouse.  Like a mental framework to observe and create photographic images.
That mental framework could benefit from the guidance to observe and the guidance to create.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 12:56:43 pm by Ivo_B »
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Ivo_B

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2018, 12:45:46 pm »

That's interesting, Keith. It's the obverse of street photography. But street photography, probably above any other kind of photography certainly requires clear vision. Without clear vision, you can spend your life on the street and never shoot anything worthwhile. I never shoot for the sake of shooting, either, but I do shoot for the sake of capturing something meaningful in front of me.

Let's give it a try. In which quadrant of the clock would this photo fall? (Russ, I hope you don't mind to use your photo?)

« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 12:50:23 pm by Ivo_B »
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Rob C

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2018, 12:47:27 pm »

Hi Rob,

I agree with what you’re saying. To me, too, what Keith is doing is travel atmospherics, not street. But the approach is the same even if the intention is quite different. But then, how would you categorize my lady with the umbrella? I shot that fifty years ago – Leica M4. There’s really no ambiguity there. It probably is an observation on the quirkyness of humanity, though mostly because people no longer walk the street looking like that. And it’s not beautiful in the usual sense, though the composition grabs me. There’s something about the tilt of that umbrella. . .

And the glossy galoshes (I think!)? Actually, what I see is a reference to a couple of French pictures, one an HC-B shot of a friend crossing a wet street towards him as he makes the shot.

I think we often see in our own work reflections that are peculiar to our own reading of things seen, which makes it difficult for others without the same background catalogue to suss out. I think we are back to jazz.

Rob

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2018, 01:04:46 pm »

Keith’s images are “travel atmospherics” because we know he was travelling when he took them. If a local took the same picture it would be street? That means it’s not the image on its own that determines what genre it is but we have to make an assessment based on things totally outside the image.

Anyway for me the genre thing is a distraction. Do people really go out with a plan to shoot street or landscape or whatever? I guess they must do. I never have.

This thread is teaching me how some other people think and that’s good I’m sure.
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Ivo_B

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2018, 01:12:50 pm »

Keith’s images are “travel atmospherics” because we know he was travelling when he took them. If a local took the same picture it would be street? That means it’s not the image on its own that determines what genre it is but we have to make an assessment based on things totally outside the image.

Anyway for me the genre thing is a distraction. Do people really go out with a plan to shoot street or landscape or whatever? I guess they must do. I never have.

This thread is teaching me how some other people think and that’s good I’m sure.

It is certainly interesting how quick it turns into a genre discussion...
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KLaban

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Re: Clock of Jean-Claude Lemagny
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2018, 01:25:37 pm »

It is certainly interesting how quick it turns into a genre discussion...

OCD central.
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