If It Were You: Mamiya RZ67Pro II D or Mamiya 645 DF+

[ChrisJett]

Hello All,

I am new to Lumious Landscape and hope to be a regular contributor as time goes by, but I have an immediate need that I need help/advice with and I hope I can get some straight answered here.

I am currently a Nikon D810 shooter. I shoot a variety of studio and outdoors photography. Although I have made money as a photographer, it is not my main source of income, rather, it is my passion. I have been wanting to get back in to medium format photography and although I will shoot film, I am interested in going digital. I used to own a Mamiya RZ67 Pro II, that I loved, and I am thinking that is what I want to get back in to. So, with all that said, here are a few comments/suggestions that hopefully can help you to give me advice.

1) I have already purchased a Phase One P40+ back for Mamiya. I did this backwards; I came across a pretty good deal and I jumped on it. So, whatever system I purchase, it must be compatible with this.

2) I am choosing between a Mamiya RZ67 Pro II D and a Mamiya 645 DF+.

3) I have a lead on an excellent condition 645 DF+ for a super great deal. This camera uses the P40+ back natively. I would also have to buy a lens, but once I do that, this camera is done - other than a desire to add additional lenses in the future. I do understand that the DF+ is a digital-only camera and that it can not take film backs. I guess I am okay with that, otherwise I could also look at the 645 AFDIIIs.

4) I am looking at a variety of RZ67 Pro II D’s online. Now this system will cost me more and I know how heavy it is, being as I already owned one - this I am okay with. The lenses are more plentiful and cheaper, which I like. I know that I will need a HX701 adapter to be able to use my P40+ and this too will add to the overall cost. I figure if I am going to do this once, then I should invest money in to it. I also know that when using a digital back with the RZ67, I will have a crop factor - I believe instead of 6x7, I am probably looking at more like 6x4.5. I can adjust to this as well.

5) Is there something I am not considering on the RZ67 Pro II D that I will need to utilize my P40+ back? I know I need the HX701 adapter and Capture software. I just don’t want any surprises.

6) In regard to using my Phase One P40+, which is the better combination - RZ67Pro II D w/HX701 adapter or the Mamiya 645DF+ with the P40+?

7) I would like to find, and possibly purchase, something today. Why? This is going to make you laugh, but I have a girlfriend with whom I live with and she is wanting to be a minimalist. I, on the other hand, am a musician and a photographer with a great amount of stuff, which drives her crazy. Yes, I am pairing down, but I do want to make a MF purchase before I stop collecting. Anyway, she is going on a two-week vacation this Friday and I am wanting to not only spend a good deal of my time alone shooting, but I want to get whatever I purchase in while she is gone - this way she does not see it come in. Lol! Silly, but true nonetheless. I’ve been researching this for weeks and I love Mamiya, so it really comes down to which is the best camera and again, it is either the RZ67 Pro II D or the 645 DF+. Now that said, there is an argument to be made for the 645 AFDIII since it can take film backs.

Money IS a factor, otherwise I would go with a high-end Hasselblad system. It is also why I am looking at pre-owned systems. It is going to drain me a bit, but will fill a MF hole in my life.

9) So, if this was you, which system would you go with, and why?

I know, a huge amount of questions, but it has been hard to find answers and I do not know anyone who has either combination. As I said, I have owned the RZ67 Pro II, so that is familiar to me. I do know what I am getting in to.

Thank you in advance for any advice and direction.

Chris

[DougDolde]

I'd buy the RZ if I wanted to shoot film but no way for digital. It's too big and heavy, you won't be able to get wide angle lenses for a digital back, and what you see in the viewfinder will be very small.

[BobShaw]

I'd buy the RZ if I wanted to shoot film but no way for digital. It's too big and heavy, you won't be able to get wide angle lenses for a digital back, and what you see in the viewfinder will be very small.

+1 on everything Doug said.

I had an RZ67 and it was the best medium format film camera because of the large negative. I looked at converting it to digital and the cost was ridiculous for a poor and unreliable result. Keep it for film and buy a modern compact digital like the X1D.

[billthecat]

I have a RZ and a 645 AFD. The RZ is heavy. I seem to use a new battery in the RZ every time go out to shoot since the battery left in the camera is always dead. So I got a large pack of batteries on Ebay. I got a custom focusing screen but it is still hard for my eyes to focus in dim light. I made a custom crop guide to put on top of my focusing screen and it caught on fire when the sun was shining into the lens one day.

The RZ weights more than my 4x5 setup and it compares with an 8x10 camera in weight.

The 110mm RZ lens is amazing and much better than my 80 mm lens on the AFD.

The 645 body should be easy to use and focus and hold in comparison, you should check compatibility with your back.

With film I use the motor winder and prism since that helps with exposure and my fingers don't wind as exactly as the motor winder.

Bill

[tcphoto1]

I loved the RZ ProII back when I shot film but the crop factor with digital is crazy, so the 645 would be my choice.

[Bo_Dez]

The Mamiya 645 is probably better suited to the P40 but there is nothing wrong with the RZ route either it just depends on what focal lengths you like to use and how fast the lenses you need.

The P40 sensor is smaller than 645 and it is a significant crop using the 33x44 sensor. With that in mind Mamiya 645 will give you a wider range of focal lengths to choose from. As a positive you do get a sort of rangefinder like compositional aid in that you can easily see what is outside the frame and I find that actually very useful.

If you can stretch to something like the P65 which are going for decent prices these days then that extra sensor size makes a big difference and you can actually get a decently wide lens in the RZ 50mm which equates to a 31mm in 35mm format cameras.

I've used Phase One backs on RZ a lot and it's fine. If you know the system already then the size and workflow won't be a surprise for you.

Personally, in that situation, if you really like the system and have the focal length and apertures you need then I would consider it and further down the track you can always buy a 645 too if you really need wider lenses.

Personally I would recommend the IID over the older bodies just because the sync cable is one less thing you have to worry about. They do wear out and they can be a bit annoying. It also frees up the socket for the grip too if you want to hand hold.

BUT the older bodies do have an advantage as they use the adapter with the Hasselblad V fit backs and that way you can use the back on a Hasselblad V for wider lenses too or the times you want a smaller portable handheld camera.

Personally I don't like the Mamiya 645 AF+. I think it's awful. Horrible AF, relatively dark and pokey viewfinder, cheap feel. I don't even really like the newer Phase One variants.

Here is a 33x44 focussing screen to show the crop. You are essentially cropping a 6x7 portrait format down to a landscape.

[tcphoto1]

I just noticed a great RZ ProIID kit in the classified. If he doesn't want to separate the kit, you can always sell the unwanted pieces. BTW, it's not my kit.

[Photorealismos]

If you shoot portraits go for the rz with apo and L-a glass but go for the pro 2 not the d d is the battery drainer!The key is finding an 701 adapter in a reasonable price and also get a custom viewfinder it will be difficult to focus as it is i use an 8x loupe with great success.

[pemihan]

and also get a custom viewfinder it will be difficult to focus as it is i use an 8x loupe with great success.

Hi, I would be very interested in knowing which kind of custom viewfinder?

Thanks
Peter

[Bo_Dez]

You can just get the flip up finder loupe for the prism, it works well IMO.

In my experience the grain/texture of the ground glass screen doesn't make extra magnification any more helpful.

[Photorealismos]

I will post pictures next week because my rz is out for service at the moment..it's a cheap plastic chinese loupe in a body like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Moveable-viewfinder-finder-for-Fuji-GX-680-GX680-II-III-camera/113242796072?hash=item1a5dcbf028:g:fvYAAOSwVzdbluxE it works great for me!

[ChrisJett]

Hello All!

I thank you so much for your advice and comments. I do plan to follow up with a lengthy post on what I have decided, once I have a camera in hand.

TCPhoto1, I did see the posting for the RZ Pro II D system just prior to my posting this question to the group - and about 30 seconds after joining LL. I reached out the seller, who was heading out of town. I believe he is getting back tomorrow and if all goes well, I might just be the owner of a complete RZ system!

But again, I will hold off on posting my thoughts, I just wanted to say thank you, I am taking everything in.

I will be back in touch soon, when I have a camera in hand and something to share with you!

Chris

[anwarp]

I have both.
I bought the df + about 2years ago.  The AF is okay.  I got an older focusing screen for the manual focus lenses.  It throws metering off completely, but with digital, you just shoot on a gut feeling and correct after looking at the shot.  In the studio, it doesn’t matter.

I’ve always fancied an rz, so when I saw a good price, I picked it up.  The adapter cost me as much as the camera.  It’s great for portraits and macro as you can get really close.  I also like the weight in my hands. I find focusing is relatively easy, provided there’s sufficient light.  Otherwise it can be a struggle.

The rz is more fun to use.  I’ve rediscovered film with it.  I’ve had people come and talk to me about the camera when I’ve used it in public places. 

The df is more practical. It can shoot up to 1/4000 of a second. The rz goes to 1/400.  An issue in bright light when you want to use the lens wide open. 

I’d suggest you pick up the one your budget permits now and the pick up the other when you have the opportunity.  They are both great cameras!

[ChrisJett]

Hello All,

I wanted to get back with all of you who were so helpful to me to say thank you and to report my decision. I had needed to wait until I received everything before posting this follow-up message. My original question was whether I should get a Mamiya RZ67Pro II D or a Mamiya 645 DF+ to go with my PhaseOne P40+ back that I had purchased recently. I have wanted to get back to Medium Format for some time, (I used to own a RZ67 Pro II) and although I want to shoot film, I was very interested in digital MF as well. It was a hard decision to make and my heart was truly focused (no pun intended) on the RZ67 Pro II even though it is such a large camera to tote around. I liked the thought of the 646 DF+, but it could only do digital. In the end I decided to purchase both cameras. I purchased a rather large RZ67 Pro II D system that was posted here on the LL For Sale forum. I found it within 5 minutes of signing up with LL and it was the largest RZ67 Pro II system that I have seen offered for sale, so I purchased it. I also found an HX701 digital back convertor for it too. In the meantime, I also found a good deal on a 645 DF+ and an 80mm lens, which I picked up. Now I can spend my time going through them both and trying them out in different environments to ultimately see which one I take to. I will not get rid of the RZ - that I am sure of, but I might part with the DF+ if I do not enjoy it ... or I might just do a typical me and keep both.

Thank you once more!

So now to start playing with my new gear.

[Bo_Dez]

Thanks for the update!

Perfect. You get the all the perks of the RZ and the added capabilities of the smaller DF.

I have a feeling you will keep both!

[baudolino]

Just to let you know that you are not alone - I just bought an as new condition RZ67 Pro IID plus the HX701 adapter. At the moment, looking forward to shooting film with it (have the Hassy X1 scanner) but may get a Trichromatic back at some point in the future, when people swap them for even newer, better toys. Enjoy your Mamiyas, they are great!

www.martindrazsky.com

[Doug Peterson]

Just to let you know that you are not alone - I just bought an as new condition RZ67 Pro IID plus the HX701 adapter. At the moment, looking forward to shooting film with it (have the Hassy X1 scanner) but may get a Trichromatic back at some point in the future, when people swap them for even newer, better toys. Enjoy your Mamiyas, they are great!

If you get a P1 Trichromatic then you’re most of the way to a system that would replace your Hasselblad (Imacon) scanner with a more modern approach that is faster and better in image quality: https://dtdch.com/film-scanning-kit/