Major bug in Elements 2018

[Frans Waterlander]

This is a major bug in my opinion, but Adobe Tech Support says the program was designed to work this way. It may be in other versions of Elements as well; I don't know.
 Here's the issue: you open a RAW image and start adjusting it; you unintentionally (or intentionally) click the DONE button. Oops; your original RAW file gets overwritten with the modified version and your original is gone forever. Nice!
 Shouldn't one of the top priorities be to safeguard the original RAW file? Shouldn't you, as a bare minimum, first get a warning like "are you sure you want to do this", although that's not enough safeguarding in my book.

 When I asked to report this as a bug, I got redirected to a feature/bug form that misdirected me to the Adobe Conversations (forum).

 What say you?

[digitaldog]

It's not a bug. It's how it's supposed to work; proprietary raws are read only, they have not been 'edited' or for that matter, anything but 'read'.

[Frans Waterlander]

It's not a bug. It's how it's supposed to work; proprietary raws are read only, they have not been 'edited' or for that matter, anything but 'read'.

Then just explain to this dummy how he can recover his original, because it looks like his original has been overwritten.

[digitaldog]

There is nothing to recover. The proprietary raw is READ ONLY.

[Doug Gray]

Look for sidecar 'xmp' files. That's where the recipe is stored. Delete it. Never heard of a program that alters RAW files. Most every photographer trying to use it would raise hell if that happened and there would be tracks all over the net.

[digitaldog]

Look for sidecar 'xmp' files. That's where the recipe is stored. Delete it. Never heard of a program that alters RAW files. Most every photographer trying to use it would raise hell if that happened and there would be tracks all over the net.

He's been told this on the other site. He refuses to believe he's using sidecar files. Again, he's not interested in the facts or answers, he's interested in hearing what he wants to hear. Proof:

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/major-bug-in-elements-2018.5511241/#post-5700036

1. I haven't used sidecars.
2. I use the database (which is not the catalog); there is no reset button in my version of ACR, 10.2. The issue is not undoing edits in ACR; you can easily do that (e.g. with the before/after button). The issue is that as soon as you click on the Done button, the original file seems to be overwritten and now has the changes made in ACR and ACR is automatically closed.

He's been told there is no ACR database. He's been told about sidecar files. The major bug is in his understanding after being told the way this really works. 

[Frans Waterlander]

He's been told this on the other site. He refuses to believe he's using sidecar files. Again, he's not interested in the facts or answers, he's interested in hearing what he wants to hear. Proof:

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/major-bug-in-elements-2018.5511241/#post-5700036

1. I haven't used sidecars.
2. I use the database (which is not the catalog); there is no reset button in my version of ACR, 10.2. The issue is not undoing edits in ACR; you can easily do that (e.g. with the before/after button). The issue is that as soon as you click on the Done button, the original file seems to be overwritten and now has the changes made in ACR and ACR is automatically closed.

He's been told there is no ACR database. He's been told about sidecar files. The major bug is in his understanding after being told the way this really works. 

OK, then be so kind to tell this dummy where he can find those sidecar files or is that too much to ask for?

[digitaldog]

OK, then be so kind to tell this dummy where he can find those sidecar files or is that too much to ask for?

See reply 5.
You actually don’t know how to look for files on your own computer?

[Frans Waterlander]

See reply 5.
You actually don’t know how to look for files on your own computer?

Apparently not, or so it seems. Care to enlighten me?

[Redcrown]

Don't feel bad, not many people know this..

First, open your CD drawer. Then take one of those small LED flashlights and peer inside. You'll find the sidecars stacked neatly in the back.

[Doug Gray]

Adobe changed the sidecar XMP files to instead store the editing data in DNG files around 2013 or so. But it works similarly.

Adobe doesn't alter RAW files *but* if using recent versions of Elements, it does save changes made in camera raw in a DNG file. When you open the RAW file it finds the associated DNG file and applies the alterations recorded in the DNG file.

Just delete any associated DNG file and re-open the RAW file.

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop-elements/using/processing-camera-raw-image-files.html

[Rhossydd]

This might help;
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=where+does+Photoshop+elements+2018+store+raw+edits+%3F

[TonyW]

Adobe changed the sidecar XMP files to instead store the editing data in DNG files around 2013 or so. But it works similarly.

Adobe doesn't alter RAW files *but* if using recent versions of Elements, it does save changes made in camera raw in a DNG file. When you open the RAW file it finds the associated DNG file and applies the alterations recorded in the DNG file.

Just delete any associated DNG file and re-open the RAW file.

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop-elements/using/processing-camera-raw-image-files.html

Thats interesting I have not used elements for many years and therefore no idea of the change to editing a DNG container.  The only raw editing applications that I am aware of that write directly to raw would be those from the manufacturer.  For instance, Nikon used to write data directly into NEF's with their Capture NX2.  The changes could be reversed and only the Nikon software would honour the changes, other editors ignored the Nikon data and applied their own

Frans, the same principle of deleting xmp files applies if you ever change to PS CC. 
As an experiment, you may want to prove to yourself that sidecar or DNG's written and your original raw exists without being touched.

Create a new folder on desktop and copy say three raw files.  Open two files in your raw editor of choice and make some gross edits on them.  Click done then close PS.  Now look at the folder you should see additional files as in the attached.  In this case xmp (a simple file that tells PS what changes to apply to sliders etc.).  Want your original back and not prepared to cancel zero settings in PS - just delete the sidecar file.

Hope all this clears up the misunderstanding that raw editors overwrite original data.

EDIT: Also note that no matter how gross your edit the thumbnail will not change to reflect those changes

[digitaldog]

Editing a DNG which isn’t a proprietary raw and not read only is exactly like TIFF or PSD, or JPEG; XMP is written into the document. When Frans deal with proprietary raws, (NEF) he’ll be using sidecar files Despite his adamant and incorrect writings that he isn’t using sidecar files. He is.  Again the bug is simply his understanding about how this all works and refusal to accept it.

[nirpat89]

Thats interesting I have not used elements for many years and therefore no idea of the change to editing a DNG container.  The only raw editing applications that I am aware of that write directly to raw would be those from the manufacturer.  For instance, Nikon used to write data directly into NEF's with their Capture NX2.  The changes could be reversed and only the Nikon software would honour the changes, other editors ignored the Nikon data and applied their own

Frans, the same principle of deleting xmp files applies if you ever change to PS CC. 
As an experiment, you may want to prove to yourself that sidecar or DNG's written and your original raw exists without being touched.

Create a new folder on desktop and copy say three raw files.  Open two files in your raw editor of choice and make some gross edits on them.  Click done then close PS.  Now look at the folder you should see additional files as in the attached.  In this case xmp (a simple file that tells PS what changes to apply to sliders etc.).  Want your original back and not prepared to cancel zero settings in PS - just delete the sidecar file.

Hope all this clears up the misunderstanding that raw editors overwrite original data.

EDIT: Also note that no matter how gross your edit the thumbnail will not change to reflect those changes

I bet the OP is not seeing the sidecars because the hidden file view is not being activated.   Go to View> show hidden files - Check.

[kirkt]

I bet the OP is not seeing the sidecars because the hidden file view is not being activated.   Go to View> show hidden files - Check.

Also, you can use the DOS prompt (Win) or Terminal (Mac) to list the contents of the directory that contains the raw and XMP files.  This will show all of the files, regardless of your GUI's file display settings.

kirk

[digitaldog]

The OP needs to know that this isn't a bug, it's by design.
The OP really needs to apparently know how to reset something he's done in ACR which is easy and suggests RTFM.
Proprietary raws are read only and what he see's is the preview (or a rendered JPEG/TIFF etc) and to reset anything in ACR is super easy to do.
https://www.lynda.com/course-tutorials/Resetting-files-ACR/587669/731195-4.html

[Frans Waterlander]

So, let me recap the situation for Elements 2018 with ACR 10.2. In Camera RAW Preferences you choose either "Save image settings in Sidecar ".xmp" files" or "Save image settings in Camera Raw database".
 With sidecars enabled a sidecars is created for Nikon NEF RAW files, whether the file is Read-only or not. With the database enabled no sidecar is created.
 With sidecars enabled a sidecar is created for DNG RAW files, but only if the file is Read-only. If the DNG file is not Read-only, no sidecar is created and I suspect the metadata is written into the DNG file, although it could possibly be written into the database; I can't figure out which.
 In ACR 10.2 I can choose the Camera RAW Defaults setting which, as far as I can tell, shows me the unedited RAW file.

 There are some drawbacks to using the database: Adobe Tech Support can't tell me where that database is located on my computer so I can't possibly back it up; someone there even told me it doesn't exist. The advantage is that you don't double your files in a given folder. I'm switching from using the database option since around 2000 to using the sidecar option from now on.

[Rhossydd]

I can't figure out which.

You really haven't got the hang of searching for information on the internet yet, have you ?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=where+does+Photoshop+elements+2018+store+raw+database

[digitaldog]

No, DNGs are not read only! Not if.