thoughts on current mirrorless systems

[chrismuc]

Looking at all these brands and systems in the various formats and the many recent announcements in mirrorless, IMO Fuji and Sony are big winners.

In 2418, Fuji with the very compelling X-T3, the variety of other camera models and the by far largest lens selection is ahead of any other APS-C competitor.

In 3624, Sony with A7RIII, A7III and A9 and the Sony and Zeiss Loxia/Batis lens line are in camera technology and lens selection miles ahead of Canon, Nikon, Leica and the newcomers Panasonic and Sigma Foveon.

In 4433/4530, again Fuji with GFX50S, 50R and 100S (soon IBIS, full sensor phase detect AF), the enlarging lens line, the option to use many EF lenses with AF adapter, CaptureOne support and fair price level outcompetes by a large margin PhaseOne XF/50MP, Hasselblad X1D, Leica S & Pentax 645Z.

In 5440 the Fuji GFX100S might terminate the market for the H6D100 and PhaseOne XF/100MP, leaving a few customers with the very expensive XF/150MP combination and a handful specialists using the 150MP back on a tech cam.

[and of course, nearly all sensors used by the mentioned brands are from Sony]

So ... a lot of competition but very few key players.

[FelixWu]

At first I thought OP was referring those numbers to years with typos 2418 instead of 2018...then went nuts in predictions for future development...

[chrismuc]

:-)
at Chinese forum and WeChat threads they use this nomenclature for sensor formats, so I thought I use it too
Chris

[eronald]

Looking at all these brands and systems in the various formats and the many recent announcements in mirrorless, IMO Fuji and Sony are big winners.

In 2418, Fuji with the very compelling X-T3, the variety of other camera models and the by far largest lens selection is ahead of any other APS-C competitor.

In 3624, Sony with A7RIII, A7III and A9 and the Sony and Zeiss Loxia/Batis lens line are in camera technology and lens selection miles ahead of Canon, Nikon, Leica and the newcomers Panasonic and Sigma Foveon.

In 4433/4530, again Fuji with GFX50S, 50R and 100S (soon IBIS, full sensor phase detect AF), the enlarging lens line, the option to use many EF lenses with AF adapter, CaptureOne support and fair price level outcompetes by a large margin PhaseOne XF/50MP, Hasselblad X1D, Leica S & Pentax 645Z.

In 5440 the Fuji GFX100S might terminate the market for the H6D100 and PhaseOne XF/100MP, leaving a few customers with the very expensive XF/150MP combination and a handful specialists using the 150MP back on a tech cam.

[and of course, nearly all sensors used by the mentioned brands are from Sony]

So ... a lot of competition but very few key players.

Yes, and?

 Sony is essentially the only MF chip supplier.
 Relationship with Sony now determines a company's product line.
 
Edmund

[DP]

In 2418, Fuji with the very compelling X-T3, the variety of other camera models and the by far largest lens selection is ahead of any other APS-C competitor.

not correct - Sony's APS-C is E-mount and as such is fully compatible with way, way more bigger FE AF lenses ecosystem (both from Sony and from 3rd parties)... the mere fact that FE lenses are FF does not matter - they are 100% native for E-mount.

[DP]

In 3624, Sony with A7RIII, A7III and A9 and the Sony and Zeiss Loxia/Batis lens line

again you forgot that Sigma and Samyang and Tamron also do make FE-mount AF lenses

[DP]

In 5440 the Fuji GFX100S might terminate

if mockup of 4433 Fuji GFX100S can "terminate" something in 5440, then 4433 FujiGFX50* is already "terminated" by existing 3624 dSLMs  ... Fuji's MF marketshare in units or dollars are what ? 1% of the said 3624 dSLMs ?

[32BT]

if mockup of 4433 Fuji GFX100S can "terminate" something in 5440, then 4433 FujiGFX50* is already "terminated" by existing 3624 dSLMs  ... Fuji's MF marketshare in units or dollars are what ? 1% of the said 3624 dSLMs ?

So what? That 1% apparently allows them to produce better and more innvative products than Canon's 50% does. Besides, systemthinking is great and all, but it primarily leads to mediocre me-too products. I mean: do you really want everyone and your mother to dive into that same FFM pool with less than mediocre offerings because that's where the money supposedly is?

I prefer Fuji to supply relative niche markets with great quality products, so we can at least still purchase actual quality, something that would be slowly dying if everybody went for the largest piece of the cake only.

[32BT]

Btw, does anybody know where Panasonic gets its FF chips? In-house? Or Sony? Considering the resolution it made me think they are offering just another iteration of the Sony chips, and i'm not sure that's really what we're waiting for, yet more Sony guts...

(No, i'm not saying they are bad chips, just that it would be useful to have some actual differentiation there.)

[Christopher]

Sony probably same as nikons z6/7. Just my guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[eronald]

Btw, does anybody know where Panasonic gets its FF chips?

Some say this is a Korean chip.

Obviously, if the world's largest semiconductor maker -Samsung- wants to extend its imaging product line, they have the resources to do both the R&D and the fabrication. If they wanted they could design and make anything that is state of the art. They may be setting their cap at imaging, which would be bad news for Sony, but good news for consumers.

Edmund

[Bo_Dez]

I think that's a good assessment and I think the Fuji has changed everything. I think that has set the tone for the next decade at least.

We'll see.

[yashima]

Looking at all these brands and systems in the various formats and the many recent announcements in mirrorless, IMO Fuji and Sony are big winners.

In 2418, Fuji with the very compelling X-T3, the variety of other camera models and the by far largest lens selection is ahead of any other APS-C competitor.

In 3624, Sony with A7RIII, A7III and A9 and the Sony and Zeiss Loxia/Batis lens line are in camera technology and lens selection miles ahead of Canon, Nikon, Leica and the newcomers Panasonic and Sigma Foveon.

In 4433/4530, again Fuji with GFX50S, 50R and 100S (soon IBIS, full sensor phase detect AF), the enlarging lens line, the option to use many EF lenses with AF adapter, CaptureOne support and fair price level outcompetes by a large margin PhaseOne XF/50MP, Hasselblad X1D, Leica S & Pentax 645Z.

In 5440 the Fuji GFX100S might terminate the market for the H6D100 and PhaseOne XF/100MP, leaving a few customers with the very expensive XF/150MP combination and a handful specialists using the 150MP back on a tech cam.

[and of course, nearly all sensors used by the mentioned brands are from Sony]

So ... a lot of competition but very few key players.

Isn't  GFX100s a 4433 and not 5440? 5440 is 1.5x sensor size of 4433, so there's still a significant differentiation for XF there.

Do you think Fuji will produce a 54440 in the near future? Does 5440 even fit in their current lens mount?

My dream camera would be a 5440 - GFX100R. I would pay good money to see it.

 

[BJL]

As an aside, I would love formats to be rationally described by dimensions, the way MF and LF film formats are, and e. g. Italian photo magazines use 36x24 for that film format. Maybe it’s all millimeters now, so:

18x13 (rounding up for ‘4/3” format’)
24x16 (rounding up for ‘APS-C’, especially for Canon)
36x24
44x33
54x40
Maybe drop the ‘x’ for faster typing!


(But it is 24x16 not 24x18)